Is a fair trial possible ?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Is a fair trial possible ?

Postby gendun » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:54 am

Three of the five defendants in the Indian rape trial are claiming that their confessions were made under torture. It it easy to think " well they would claim that wouldnt they ? ".
But what if it is true ?
Where does the moral high ground lie then ?
Did they " ask for it ? "
And in any case torture or not, is it possible for them to have a fair trial ?
Furthermore is it possible to ask these questions without an implication that one is condoning rape ?
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Re: Is a fair trial possible ?

Postby Doshin » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:23 am

gendun wrote:...


Fair, by who's measurement-stick ? The victim, the suspect, the victims family, the suspects family, ... ?

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Re: Is a fair trial possible ?

Postby Billymac29 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:36 am

Is a fair trial possible ?
My opinion "no" you cant have a fair trial now a days.. This is the problem with the USA.. Justice and fairness are not the same...
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"
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Re: Is a fair trial possible ?

Postby gendun » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:38 am

By the internationally accepted criteria of a fair trial in a democratic country.
Which largely assumes innocence until guilt is proved.
Is this assumption possible in light of the publicity which surrounds this trial ?
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Re: Is a fair trial possible ?

Postby Doshin » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:37 pm

gendun wrote:By the internationally accepted criteria of a fair trial in a democratic country.
Which largely assumes innocence until guilt is proved.


What about those who don't accept that definition, would it be fair to force them to "accept" that ? And if a person is proved innocent, based on evidence gained via torture, would that be fair ?

I think this subject is a case, where you seek a black/white answer to a very complex situation. You could ask yourself, who's treatment you want to be fair, and who should find it fair ?

gendun wrote:Is this assumption possible in light of the publicity which surrounds this trial ?


I don't have the insight in matters surrounding that trial, to make judgement about it's fairness.

_/\_

EDIT: inserted a missing "ask" in sentence
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Re: Is a fair trial possible ?

Postby gendun » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:43 pm

I am raising questions concerning complex issues. Not expecting simple answers.
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Re: Is a fair trial possible ?

Postby SDC » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:55 pm

gendun wrote:I am raising questions concerning complex issues. Not expecting simple answers.


Due to your recent join date, I am sure :roll: you are not aware that a thread on this topic went south a few days ago resulting in some bitter feelings between members. So considering the sensitivity of this issue, I ask you this simple question - what is the point of starting this topic on a Buddhist forum?
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Re: Is a fair trial possible ?

Postby gendun » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:21 pm

No I did not know that this topic has a history. And if it offends proprieties then I hope the moderators will intervene.
Having said that how can a topic like this NOT be appropriate on a Buddhist website per se ?
Do we live in a different world to the rest of humankind ?
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Re: Is a fair trial possible ?

Postby daverupa » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:54 pm

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/wp-cont ... _trial.pdf

The standards against which a trial is to be assessed in terms of fairness are numerous, complex, and constantly evolving.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Is a fair trial possible ?

Postby SDC » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:08 pm

gendun wrote:No I did not know that this topic has a history. And if it offends proprieties then I hope the moderators will intervene.
Having said that how can a topic like this NOT be appropriate on a Buddhist website per se ?
Do we live in a different world to the rest of humankind ?


I didn't say it wasn't appropriate, I was just curious about your motives.

I hope the conversation yields something positive and I hope you get what you want from it.
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Re: Is a fair trial possible ?

Postby gendun » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:11 pm

I read the reports and watched the tv footage and asked myself what chance the defendants have of a fair trial, and I felt for them. That was more or less it.
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Re: Is a fair trial possible ?

Postby SDC » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:21 pm

gendun wrote:I read the reports and watched the tv footage and asked myself what chance the defendants have of a fair trial, and I felt for them. That was more or less it.


Right on. Sorry if I jumped the gun.
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Re: Is a fair trial possible ?

Postby gendun » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:30 pm

No worries .

:anjali:
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