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Are Malas a form of garland? - Dhamma Wheel

Are Malas a form of garland?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Alobha
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Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby Alobha » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:04 am


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daverupa
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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby daverupa » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:36 pm

It comes down to intent; is the intent to beautify the body, or to increase presence of mind? Does the mala have to be "pretty", and will you not wear an "ugly" one? Is it a piece of flair which you hope will broadcast the identity "I am a Buddhist"? And so forth...

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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:56 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Alobha
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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby Alobha » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:18 pm


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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:28 pm

I wear my malas not with the intent to beautify but as reminders and tools. I'm usually a stickler but I truly don't believe these are the types of malas meant (although I do give it thought every uposatha day when reciting the attha-sila). Mettaya and happy uposatha (I'm wearing my mala now :tongue: )
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

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Cittasanto
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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:26 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby Bakmoon » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:18 am

The non-doing of any evil,
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.

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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:34 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby gendun » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:56 am

" Yes to: "Malas fall under this precept" or to "Malas can be worn without breaking this precept?"
I can't read whole sentences in Pali.[/quote]
It is the seventh precept in pali.
so yes to the former, they do break the precept.[/quote]"


I recently did a Vipassana retreat with a disciple of Webu Sayadaw. The main teacher wore a mala which she had been given by the Sayadaw. On the wall was a photograph of him wearing the same mala.
Are you saying that the teacher and Webu Sayadaw were breaking the precept ?
I think perhaps we need a Pali scholar able to distinguish between a flower garland and a japa-mala.
I am sure they exist on the forum.
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.

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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:46 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby gendun » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:32 pm

Well as my Vajrayana teacher says "the "appeal to authority fallacy" is itself a fallacy in regards to the Buddha's Dharma ". :smile:
But in any case I was not making any such appeal.
I am new to the Theravada. The retreat I mentioned above sparked my interest in the Theravada.
I am clueless concerning the Theravada application of the precepts.
I was merely pointing out what appears to be anomaly between the absolutist view you gave above, ( which you are now modifying ) and what I encountered in a real life situation with experienced Theravada teachers.
Last edited by gendun on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Gendun P. Brownlow.
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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby gendun » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:37 pm

Gendun P. Brownlow.
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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby badscooter » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:09 pm

"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby gendun » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:21 pm

Thank you Billymac thats pretty much what I figured to be the actual Theravada position.
As far as the Vajrayana goes of course, malas are virtually compulsory ! :smile:
Many of us are given one by a teacher and expected to use it for its intended purpose.
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:45 pm

Last edited by Cittasanto on Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:52 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

gendun
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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby gendun » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:09 pm

Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:50 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

gendun
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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby gendun » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:12 pm

I am baffled by your negative tone.
I see nothing in the OP to suggest that the poster was asking about the Bhikkhu Vinaya.
In my case I noted that you were suggesting that the wearing of malas for any reason was a breach of precept.
That puzzled me and still does.
For the reason I outlined. That I have seen a photograph of a highly respected Bhikku wearing a mala.
And a lay person of many years experience who daily takes the 8 precepts and leads others in so doing wearing the same mala.

Incidentally the "fallacy of appealing to authority" is one of a series of possible failures of logic in defending a position.
I was merely asking for clarification about a matter about which I have little knowledge . And I asked a simple question in good faith.
I find your dismissive and defensive response both disappointing and frankly very odd.
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.

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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Are Malas a form of garland?

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:49 pm

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta



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