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1st jhana factors: theory vs experience - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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tiltbillings
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Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:47 pm


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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:26 pm

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


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tiltbillings
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Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:37 pm


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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:41 pm

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:49 pm


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LonesomeYogurt
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Location: America

Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:55 pm

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:30 pm


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LonesomeYogurt
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Location: America

Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:01 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


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Spiny Norman
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Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:01 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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tiltbillings
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Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:22 pm


nibbuti
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Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby nibbuti » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:12 pm


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Spiny Norman
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Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:16 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Spiny Norman
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Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:23 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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reflection
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Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby reflection » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:42 pm

Let's try to describe the taste of a banana in theory..
We can't.

If we can't even describe something that common, we can simply forget trying to get jhana in some theoretical format.
When you are hungry you don't care about the theory of how a banana tastes, you just eat.

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Sekha
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Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby Sekha » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:07 pm

Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

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Zom
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Re: 1st jhana factors: theory vs experience

Postby Zom » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:54 pm

Two useful points to keep in mind:

1). MN 64 passage (why jhana is needed):

There is a path, Ananda, a way to the abandoning of the
five lower fetters; that anyone, without coming to that path, to
that way, shall know or see or abandon the five lower fetters -
this is not possible. Just as when there is a great tree standing
possessed of heartwood, it is not possible that anyone shall cut
out its heartwood without cutting through its bark and sapwood,
so too, there is a path.. .this is not possible.
...
"And what, Ananda, is the path, the way to the abandoning
of the five lower fetters? Here, with seclusion from objects of
attachment, with the abandoning of unwholesome states, with
the complete tranquillization of bodily inertia, quite secluded
from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, a
bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the first jhana, which is
accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture
and pleasure born of seclusion.

"Whatever exists therein of material form, feeling, perception,
formations, and consciousness, he sees those states as impermanent,
as suffering, as a disease, as a tumour, as a barb, as a
calamity, as an affliction, as alien, as disintegrating, as void, as
not self. He turns his mind away from those states and
directs it towards the deathless element thus: "This is the peaceful,
this is the sublime, that is, the stilling of all formations, the
relinquishing of all attachments, the destruction of craving,
dispassion, cessation, Nibbana.' Standing upon that, he
attains the destruction of the taints. But if he does not attain the
destruction of the taints, then because of that desire for the
Dhamma, that delight in the Dhamma, with the destruction of
the five lower fetters he becomes one due to reappear spontaneously
[in the Pure Abodes] and there attain final Nibbana
without ever returning from that world. This is the path, the
way to the abandoning of the five lower fetters.


2). DN 2 passage (how to be sure you are in it):

"Quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, he enters and remains in the first jhana: rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought and evaluation. He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal. Just as if a skilled bathman or bathman's apprentice would pour bath powder into a brass basin and knead it together, sprinkling it again and again with water, so that his ball of bath powder — saturated, moisture-laden, permeated within and without — would nevertheless not drip; even so, the monk permeates... this very body with the rapture and pleasure born of withdrawal. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal.

:reading: :buddha2: 8-)


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