Grandchildren of the Buddha

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Grandchildren of the Buddha

Postby Modus.Ponens » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:49 pm

I read an interesting article in which it says that, acording to a simplified mathematical model, we can all be grandchildren of such personalities as the Buddha (assuming his direct lineage didn't extinguish; i don't know if Rahula had children) or Confucious, or, in fact, every person alive from 550 AC backwards who's direct lineage didn't extinguish. So here in DW we are all cousins. :)
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
 
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Funchal, Portugal

Re: Grandchildren of the Buddha

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:03 pm

As far as I know, there is no direct biological lineage from the Buddha. Both Rāhula and Yasodharā (his mother) ordained and became Arahants. Most of the Sākyan race were wiped out by Vidadubhā, but no doubt some survived. I believe that there is still a tribal group in Nepal of the same name.

The monks are known as the sons of the Buddha — Sākyaputta.
AIM WebsitePāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
 
Posts: 2011
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Grandchildren of the Buddha

Postby Modus.Ponens » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:25 pm

Venerable, Did Rahula have children before ordaining?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
 
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Funchal, Portugal

Re: Grandchildren of the Buddha

Postby perkele » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:49 pm

Modus.Ponens wrote:Venerable, Did Rahula have children before ordaining?


I think he was 7 or 10 years old or something when he ordained. So... probably not.
:tongue:
perkele
 
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:37 pm

Re: Grandchildren of the Buddha

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:13 pm

Modus.Ponens wrote:Venerable, Did Rahula have children before ordaining?

He was a child at the time of taking on the robes. and the rules about ordaining without parental consent stem from this event.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5743
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Grandchildren of the Buddha

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:17 am

So we don't have the blood of the Buddha in us. That's disapointing. :( But the fact that we're all distant cousins remains.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
 
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Funchal, Portugal

Re: Grandchildren of the Buddha

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:18 am

Rahula didn't have any children, but the Buddha had many nephews and nieces. It is probable that at least one of them had children and passed on his genes (at least indirectly; some shared/similar genes). Therefore, there may be some Indians in the Northern provinces today who have an almost direct lineage to Gotama-Buddha and perhaps a direct lineage to Suddhodana.

I know Nanda (Buddha's half-brother) longed for his girlfriend after ordaining, but don't know if he had any children before ordaining.
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8049
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Grandchildren of the Buddha

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:49 am

The mathematical result implies more than that. It says that if the lineage of, say, Buddha's grandfather didn't extinguished, all of the population in earth are his direct descendents.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
 
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Funchal, Portugal

Re: Grandchildren of the Buddha

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:34 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:The mathematical result implies more than that. It says that if the lineage of, say, Buddha's grandfather didn't extinguished, all of the population in earth are his direct descendents.

the mathmatical model is just that a model, it doesn't prove anything.in fact,using the same model there are not enough people alive today. The same thing has been said of Gengis Kahn (who had a shed load of off-spiring) and through DNA studies not everyone who though they were descended were related.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5743
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Grandchildren of the Buddha

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:44 pm

The model is simplified. There is another more sophisticated model in which the date in which the humanity is exactly divided into two groups (those who are our direct ascendents and those who don't have descendents today) is earlier than 550 AC. There are two explanations for Gengis Khan not being the gret-...-great grandfather of said person: he either doesn't have direct descendents or because he is inside the period where the wrold doesn't divides in two said groups.

Don't be so quick to dismiss mathematical models. An outdated model such as Newton's for gravity which has around 350 years is still used to model the trajectory of satelites and probes. It is impossible, as far as we know, to prove that a mathematical model is the correct one. But that doesn't mean that its predictions aren't remarkably accurate.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
 
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Funchal, Portugal

Re: Grandchildren of the Buddha

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:35 pm

Modus.Ponens wrote:The model is simplified. There is another more sophisticated model in which the date in which the humanity is exactly divided into two groups (those who are our direct ascendents and those who don't have descendents today) is earlier than 550 AC. There are two explanations for Gengis Khan not being the gret-...-great grandfather of said person: he either doesn't have direct descendents or because he is inside the period where the wrold doesn't divides in two said groups.

Don't be so quick to dismiss mathematical models. An outdated model such as Newton's for gravity which has around 350 years is still used to model the trajectory of satelites and probes. It is impossible, as far as we know, to prove that a mathematical model is the correct one. But that doesn't mean that its predictions aren't remarkably accurate.

I did find this,
http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2009/10/ar ... magne.html

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5743
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Grandchildren of the Buddha

Postby John1122 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:46 pm

didn't the Buddha renounce his fathers lineage?
John1122
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:04 pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: Grandchildren of the Buddha

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:53 am

John1122 wrote:didn't the Buddha renounce his fathers lineage?

To my understanding yes, he went to the lineage of the Noble Ones. I can not remember which sutta it is in, but maybe someone with share it.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5743
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin


Return to Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: palchi and 5 guests