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what gets reborn - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

what gets reborn

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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cooran
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby cooran » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:54 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

pegembara
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby pegembara » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:32 am

And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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kirk5a
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby kirk5a » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:00 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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convivium
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby convivium » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:46 pm

Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

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kirk5a
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby kirk5a » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:59 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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convivium
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby convivium » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:40 pm

So all sentient beings in the thirty-one planes of existence possess this same sort of mind, with varying particularities in terms of what can be discerned, directed towards, etc. This means that there need be no biological foundation (a nervous system, neuronal configurations, etc) for the mind to exist. Also, if the arising of ignorance presupposes the existence of this mind, then it seems to be outside or independent from dependent origination. Is this right?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

SarathW
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby SarathW » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:28 pm

Hi Convivium
Ignorance is not the first cause. Please do not think that Dependent Origination is working like a link or circle.
All the elements of Dependent origination are interdependent to each other.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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convivium
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby convivium » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:40 pm

Only by eliminating ignorance can the dependent origination sequence cease and by extension samsara. Correct?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

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retrofuturist
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:42 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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convivium
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby convivium » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:52 pm

Last edited by convivium on Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

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retrofuturist
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:01 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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convivium
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby convivium » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:07 pm

Thanks for your response! Of course the universe goes on when one enters parinibbana, as it were. So there seems to be a divide between subjective/sentient experience, and objective reality. I am interested in how this objective reality relates to subjective/sentient experience (in terms of causing it to arise, or allowing it to cease etc). edit: i guess i could start off with the question of exactly what this objective reality consists in (minus samsara). i think consciousness would have to be a basic attribute or substance of the universe itself for kamma-linked rebirth to operate.
Last edited by convivium on Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

SarathW
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby SarathW » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:28 pm

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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convivium
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby convivium » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:31 pm

Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

SarathW
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: what gets reborn

Postby SarathW » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:05 am

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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convivium
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby convivium » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:10 am

well, how can you fail to have understanding without consciousness?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

SarathW
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby SarathW » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:19 am

Let it go.
So I will let you go!
LY
:smile:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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convivium
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby convivium » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:22 am

In other words, in order to understand or fail to understand, one must first be conscious.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

SarathW
Posts: 8014
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: what gets reborn

Postby SarathW » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:33 am

I see you point. You can't attain Arahantship bu logic or arguments. You should develop Sila,Samadhi and Panna. :D
Please read the link below from chapter 15:

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/buddh ... gsurw6.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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convivium
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 7:13 am

Re: what gets reborn

Postby convivium » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:36 am

Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php


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