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jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on. - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Mr Man
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby Mr Man » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:26 pm

Dave but do you think the rose-apple situation was unique to the young prince and not an experience that many people would have shared? The significance/usefulness was only realized in retrospect.

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daverupa
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby daverupa » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:25 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:33 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:49 pm


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Alobha
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby Alobha » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:17 pm

@ Offtopic:
While I don't agree with tilt's disrespectul approach (It's just what Tilt does, people.), at least the Visuddhi Magga draws a distinction between a Samatha Yanika and a Sukkha Vipassaka: While the Sukkha Vipassaka is a person who only has Vipassana as his/her vehicle and at least reached stream-entry,
the Samatha Yanika is a person who has at least the first jhana as his/her vehicle _besides_ insight/vipassana and, with both insight and jhanas, reached at least stream-entry.
Jhana alone may not be enough, but that does not mean it's useless or a subject that can be neglected, looked down upon or made fun of... As far as understand it, a high level of concentration (such as attained in the jhanas), is a great supporting condition for Insight and thus it's good to develop samadhi.

@ Thread: Concerning jhana in pre-buddhist times. When the Buddha awakened and decided to teach, there were several people he thought might be suitable to understand the Dhamma. Some of them were past teachers of Siddharta Gautama and if I recall correctly, the Buddha thought they would understand because they already achieved one of the higher jhanas. However, most of them died shortly so he couldn't tell them. I think it was something like this.. if you're interested, I'd suggest poking around in that area.

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tiltbillings
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:37 pm


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daverupa
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby daverupa » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:03 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:22 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:24 pm


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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:38 pm


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daverupa
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby daverupa » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:32 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:55 pm

I believe Alara Kalama one of the Buddhas two teachers taught Jhana. And it is at least mentioned in the as being true.
I personally believe the Rose Apple tree recollection rather than another was the imutus for the Buddha pursuing the Jhana's later on because it was not surrounded by striving for something, or the hardships he was undergoing so was free from the association with the harsh practices.
He understood it wasn't sufficient and required more traction (remember the Jhana's are always described using liquid similies) to break through to Nibbana, which Vipassana gave (and it has been suggested in a lecture by Venerable Analaya, via the observation from a participant, that insight practice is called dry for a contrast to the Jhana's).


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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daverupa
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby daverupa » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:25 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:28 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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daverupa
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby daverupa » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:29 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:47 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

alan...
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby alan... » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:50 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:08 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

lojong1
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby lojong1 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:29 pm


alan...
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Re: jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

Postby alan... » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:43 pm



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