what gets reborn
? Well, it could be clearer.retrofuturist wrote::goodpost:
Billymac29 wrote:If there is no self, no I , no soul.... I'm still a little wrapped up with what actually is reborn at death??????? Can anyone answer this? What might be reborn in another realm if anything?
convivium wrote:since this naturalistic view of consciousness seems the most promising, and i haven't yet heard any promising alternative explanation
I don't understand people's preoccupation with looking for the "what" that gets reborn. I'd counter that question with another question: Why do you think there needs to be a "what" that gets reborn in the first place? What exactly are you looking for in this "what" and why? I think when you look at this question deeply you'll see that it's really the ego doing the talking...it's trying to find something solid to plant itself into. It doesn't like the alternative idea, because it loses footing then and no longer has a firm grip.
could you elaborate on these bits?in the aftermath of mentally affirming the former by means of imputing a sense of this idea being more than just an idea... If affirmation ceases perpetuation ceases...
first, biological naturalism doesn't necessarily entail materialism (nor necessarily dualism). my understanding is that most all the neurological findings of the past decade point in this direction. of course, we don't have conclusive understanding of the cause of consciousness in the brain. when we do, it will fit into a naturalistic framework; that is, i don't yet see any other scientific possibility.What about a (materialist) naturalistic view of consciousness makes it the most promising explanation? Where is the evidence that consciousness is produced by the brain?
a) the epistemic gap in materialism, b) the absence of a neural correlate of consciousness, c) out-of-body experiences (OBEs), d) near-death experiences (NDEs), and e) the measurement problem in quantum physics.
sarahypp wrote: Modern science has proven that the Bardo exists... take for example Dr Brian Weiss' book on Many lives, Many Masters... It tells a story of one of his patients that undergo past life regression. There are many voids between lives which she mentions as 'waiting'.
sarahypp wrote:So, when we pass away, most of the time we will be in a period of transition. This transition time is what we call the Bardo. Modern science has proven that the Bardo exists...
Billymac29 wrote:So what is 'consciousness'.. what would be the most helpful definition?
"Have no fear, Mahanama! Have no fear! Your death will not be a bad one, your demise will not be bad. If one's mind has long been nurtured with conviction, nurtured with virtue, nurtured with learning, nurtured with relinquishment, nurtured with discernment, then when the body — endowed with form, composed of the four primary elements, born from mother & father, nourished with rice & porridge, subject to inconstancy, rubbing, pressing, dissolution, & dispersion — is eaten by crows, vultures, hawks, dogs, hyenas, or all sorts of creatures, nevertheless the mind — long nurtured with conviction, nurtured with virtue, learning, relinquishment, & discernment — rises upward and separates out.
Tam uddhangami hoti visesagami. The passage shows citta as the principle of personal continuity which survives the death of the body and reaps the fruits of kamma. In the case of a noble disciple it "goes to distinction" by way of a higher rebirth and be evolving onwards to Nibbana. The following simile of the pot is at 42:6 (IV 313,27-30), differently applied.
If in riding a boat you look toward the shore, you erroneously think that the shore is moving. But upon looking carefully at the ship, you see that it is the ship that is actually moving. Similarly, seeing all things through a misconception of your body and mind gives rise to the mistake that this mind and substance are eternal. If you live truly and return to the source, it is clear that all things have no substance. Burning logs become ashes - and cannot return again to logs. There for you should not view ashes as after and logs as before. You must understand that a burning log - as a burning log - has before and after. But although it has past and future, it is cut off from past and future. Ashes as ashes have after and before. Just as ashes do not become logs again after becoming ashes, man does not live again after death. So not to say that life becomes death is a natural standpoint of Buddhism. So this is called no-life. To say that death does not become life is the fixed sermon of the Buddha. So this is called no-death. Life is a position of time, and death is a position of time . . . just like winter and spring. You must not believe that winter becomes spring - nor can you say that spring becomes summer.
convivium wrote:something objective (nervous system) can give rise to something subjective (consciousness) in the sense that consciousness is just a higher level property of a lower level system. in this way, consciousness (subjective, aware, qualitative experience) is a natural phenomena just like digesting food. b) neuroscientists are still working on that, but getting closer and everything is pointing in this direction....