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what gets reborn - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

what gets reborn

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
SarathW
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby SarathW » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:50 am

True. I agree with you. :clap:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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ground
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby ground » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:52 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:57 am

:goodpost:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:18 am


Digity
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby Digity » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:29 am


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convivium
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby convivium » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:16 am

it's easy to have a naturalistic account of rebirth; that is, a conception of rebirth amenable to the view that consciousness arises from biological conditions (e.g. neuronal configurations) (a view held by most scientists and philosophers today). the catch is, that on this view, mental qualities of one being will have no impact on the particular life form that will be inhabited (by virtue of biological conditions i.e. worlds continuing to produce sentient organisms) after that being's death. so, the buddhist explanation of consciousness can't be biological naturalism or even lesser theories like reductionism etc. since this naturalistic view of consciousness seems the most promising, and i haven't yet heard any promising alternative explanation, i remain somewhat skeptical towards both kamma-linked rebirth and the possibility of avoiding consciousness arising in another body by way of the deathless. can someone help me out with this? do i have to resort to abhidhamma to answer these questions?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:27 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


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convivium
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby convivium » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:33 am

Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

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gavesako
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby gavesako » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:04 pm

I like this metaphor:

What if the brain and nervous system relate to consciousness like the TV set to radio signals? Let's call this the nonlocal model of consciousness. If we accept the nonlocal model of consciousness provisionally, we can compare TV reception to sense perception. We can compare qualia (conscious experience) to TV images and sounds; we can compare memories to the recording function, thoughts to the playback and edit functions, and mental chatter to audiovisual noise. Furthermore, if the nervous system/brain functions as receiver/modulator of consciousness rather than its producer, it follows that consciousness is not based on the brain, but that the brain is based on consciousness. There are a number of theoretical considerations and phenomena that point in this direction. These phenomena show the limits of the current mainstream (materialistic) understanding of consciousness and provide theoretical support for the nonlocal model of consciousness.
http://www.thebigview.com/mind/nonlocal.html
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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convivium
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby convivium » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:54 pm

Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

sarahypp
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby sarahypp » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:53 am

When we die, it is our mind/consciousness that travels and takes a new form... depending on the natural state of the mind at death will determine where our consciousness arises. When I say where I am referring to the which realm we will end up in.

So, when we pass away, most of the time we will be in a period of transition. This transition time is what we call the Bardo. Modern science has proven that the Bardo exists... take for example Dr Brian Weiss' book on Many lives, Many Masters... It tells a story of one of his patients that undergo past life regression. There are many voids between lives which she mentions as 'waiting'.

To know more about rebirths, we must understand the concept of reincarnation. I found this particular article about reincarnation which was taught by HHDL, Avalokiteshvara. Do have a read for further understanding. http://blog.tsemtulku.com/tsem-tulku-ri ... -lama.html

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Aloka
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby Aloka » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:43 am


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badscooter
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby badscooter » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:45 am

"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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badscooter
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby badscooter » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:48 am

So what is 'consciousness'.. what would be the most helpful definition?
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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equilibrium
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby equilibrium » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:23 pm

Last edited by equilibrium on Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kirk5a
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby kirk5a » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:16 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Aloka
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby Aloka » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:45 pm

Different translations can be really confusing sometimes ... to me, the meaning of "separates out" is nothing remotely like "goes to distinction" .

:reading:

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gavesako
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby gavesako » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:43 pm

I think Thanissaro is referring here to a simile used by Ajahn Lee in which he describes the purification of gold ore by putting it into a fire so that the pure element "separates out". However, I also don't think this translation does justice to the Pali in this case. "Uddha" and "visesa" obviously have a similar meaning here: high, special, refined.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

pegembara
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby pegembara » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:22 am

And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

Nyana
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby Nyana » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:15 pm



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