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No believing in God is not such a good idea. - Dhamma Wheel

No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
SarathW
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No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby SarathW » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:01 pm

I see that there is a trend, many people live in western countries are not believing in god. As Buddhist we do not believe in creator god but believe in other forms of Gods. To me it appears that westerners are moving from eternalism to nihilism, both of which are rejected by Buddha. If I have only two choices, I will chose etrenalism over nihilism. I think nihilism make do damage to the social fabrication. In my opinion theistic religions has made a great contribution to the society. May be religious leaders should take note of this factor.
I am sure Dhamma wheel is making a great contribution to the society by closing this gap.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Cittasanto
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:12 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

SarathW
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby SarathW » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:22 pm

Ok. Then I would say "a contribution" :)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Goofaholix
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby Goofaholix » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:26 pm

I think eternalism vs nihilism is quite a different topic from creator God vs no creator God.

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:26 pm

In the opinion of many, these God-based religions did great damage to society, and are still doing great damage. And, from what I heard, there are too many cases of child sexual abuse among the Buddhist clergy, just as there are such reports in other religious orders.

Then there are the many wars waged in the name of religion due to false beliefs and bigotted views.

It may be much easier for the sceptical atheist or secular humanist to understand the Dhamma than for the devout follower of any religion (and that includes devout followers of Buddhism who are hypocrits).

Believing in an Omnipotent Creator God is quite different to believing in devas or ghosts, or nature spirits of various kinds. The crucial point is accepting full responsibility for one's own actions according to the teaching of Kammassakatta Sammādiṭṭhi. It doesn't matter too much what else you believe in or don't believe in, as long as you believe that you alone will inherit the results of volitional actions of body, speech, and thought done by yourself.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

perkele
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby perkele » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:28 pm

Last edited by perkele on Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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polarbear101
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby polarbear101 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:32 pm

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

SarathW
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby SarathW » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:56 pm

Bahante Pesal: I know lot of people use religion to achieve their selfish motives. But it is not the fault of the religion.

Pakele: Sorry may be I did not get my English right. What I am saying is there is gap emerging with people are looking for answers to their questions. For example I see that there are lot of new members coming here as new Buddhist. I thought Dhamma wheel is a great resource for new seekers.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Cittasanto
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:09 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

SarathW
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby SarathW » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:34 am

Oops now I undestood your question. I repeated "Great contribution" in two places! :)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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manas
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby manas » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:56 am

Hi Sarath,

I have heard many times from Christians that they are basically 'saved' due to their belief in a blood-sacrifice enacted thousands of years back (torture, death and divine resurrection of Jesus). Apparently this is the main, overriding factor in their salvation - and no matter how many good works they do, no matter how kind they are to others, if they don't also believe in that 'miracle of christ's death and resurrection' they will end up getting eternally barbecued, boiled & roasted in hell, with no hope ever of any respite.

As I see it, this belief engenders much fear in people (unreasonable of course, but then they don't know that), and furthermore absolves them of the responsibility for their own actions, in the sense that instead of 'as I sow, so shall I reap' (which sounds fair enough), they now believe, 'however I sow, so long as I believe in the miracle of christ's death & resurrection, I will be ok in the end'. That's scary stuff. Just see how the Catholic Church has 'dealt' with the sex offenders in their ranks, and you will see one of the results of this faulty way of thinking.

:anjali:
Last edited by manas on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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pilgrim
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby pilgrim » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:14 am


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m0rl0ck
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby m0rl0ck » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:55 am

Theism is probably responsible for more human misery and death than anything except bacteria and viruses.
It should be outlawed. Read the news. Read some history for christs sake.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Cittasanto
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:40 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Mr Man
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby Mr Man » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:05 am


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polarbear101
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby polarbear101 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:19 am

:goodpost:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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Kusala
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby Kusala » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:26 am

Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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kirk5a
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby kirk5a » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:52 pm

Last edited by kirk5a on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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m0rl0ck
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby m0rl0ck » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:09 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Cittasanto
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Re: No believing in God is not such a good idea.

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:24 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.


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