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Can Mindfulness be unpleasant? - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

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beeblebrox
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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby beeblebrox » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:31 pm


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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:54 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby robertk » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:00 pm

All mind states arise momentarily and fall away immediately. It is like a new being born and dying again and again, even in the space of a second.
But they do arise in processes and each process is conditioned by previous mind states. Thus this continuity is one of the reasons for the illusion of a lasting being.

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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby Spiny Norman » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:59 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby robertk » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:31 pm


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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:43 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:58 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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robertk
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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby robertk » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:13 pm


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beeblebrox
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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby beeblebrox » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:03 pm

Hi Porpoise, I think it makes no sense for the mindfulness to be part of akusala citta, or unwholesome mind.

I think that maybe the difficulty here lies in trying to view these as discrete moments, which are separate from each other... this can cause the problem where it seems like the mindfulness won't have the ability to be in touch with of what is akusala citta, or even to arise out of it. That is only a conventional description... not the reality.

If we try to describe it as a flux, where things are blended together, then I think we also still have the same problem... i.e., the idea that mindfulness could be a part of akusala citta. That obviously isn't the case.

The duration would be another story. I think that with many practitioners, myself included, the mindfulness (if it was that in the first place) will disappear rather quickly... and then it will pop up again sometimes later (which can happen very soon, or after a while), only to disappear fairly quickly again.

Also, I think that maybe what some people call mindfulness is actually concentration.

:anjali:

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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby Digity » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:55 am


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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:44 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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robertk
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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby robertk » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:14 am


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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:20 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby danieLion » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:22 am


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robertk
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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby robertk » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:25 am


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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:28 am

Hi DanieLion,
I had just edited that slightly to include [a form of].
But in many respects yes, to me each aspect that makes up the path is by itself, speech, livelihood, perspective, focus, mindfulness... are neutral, and it is only when you are aiming in a particular direction that it becomes skilful or not.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:36 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

danieLion
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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby danieLion » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:42 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:53 am


danieLion
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Re: Can Mindfulness be unpleasant?

Postby danieLion » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:08 am



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