Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
User avatar
manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby manas » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:33 pm

Hi puppha,

you said you were 'trying for yet another child'. My advice would be to take measures to ensure that you DON'T conceive another child with her, or you will have even more dear ones to worry about (getting heavily indoctrinated, you not getting a say about that, etc).

Don't multiply your stress any further. The current level is enough to deal with.

With karuna
:anjali:
Last edited by manas on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

Reductor
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:52 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby Reductor » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:03 pm

Lordy, lordy, puppha! I feel for you.

First, I echo the opinion that you should not have more kids. To heck with what others want you to do, if you think it would be wrong. I knew a woman who was constantly pressured to have another kids, because her husband and whole family wanted a boy. She was digging in her heals last I heard (fingers crossed she still is). Another woman that I met not long ago - a mother who brings her daughter to the same dance class as my kids - told me that she wasn't sure about having another kid, but that it was really important to her husband. I couldn't help but point out that she wasn't obliged to have kid just for that reason, and that I would not be willing to do it.

One family had seven girls - more than they could afford to support - all because one of the parents wanted a boy (probably the father, since this was a chinese family). What good did it do the mother and kids?

In my own family, my wife has often expressed regret that we will not have more children, to which I tell her that I am not sorry and that I would never consent to have another one.

As it is, in my family we have two kids, a Buddhist and a fundamentalist Christian. Things get pretty tense at time, but I have long ago stopped caring if I say something that runs counter to her beliefs. This isn't to say I show disrespect, but rather point out the other interpretations whenever that chance arises.

So, say my kid is sick, the wife prays, and a day and a half later the kid is well. Hallelujah! She talks about the miracle to the kid, I sit near and point out that I have also gotten better from illness without a single prayer.

It irks her sometimes, but I think the dynamic between us is such that we don't break into fist fights over it.

Of course, you wife has long sounded like she holds you in very low regard, while my wife thinks well of me in most respects. And honestly, I think it is lack of respect that is causing your woes more than anything else.

So, stand your ground, speak openly without being disrespectful (use your standard, not hers - for her just being non-born-again is disrespectful), and dont' have any more kids with her. Accept that the parent to whom you daughter is closest is the one that will most determine her beliefs and If that parent isn't you, then, well...

:heart:

User avatar
Sokehi
Posts: 405
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:27 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby Sokehi » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:17 pm

Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko


User avatar
Anagarika
Posts: 914
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:25 pm

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby Anagarika » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:49 pm


User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby Ben » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:53 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 2873
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby Mr Man » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:01 pm

puppha, I don't think it is appropriate to bring this kind of personal issue to a public forum. It is disrespectful in my opinion.
:anjali:

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby Ben » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:05 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 3670
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:26 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

User avatar
puppha
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:56 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby puppha » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:07 am


User avatar
puppha
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:56 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby puppha » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:11 am


Clarence
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:49 pm

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby Clarence » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:31 pm

Hi Puppha,

I am glad you thought my questions were helpful. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to help you further. If I were in your situation, I would get a divorce. But, first I would try therapy--after having my wife's head examined (this only because in one of House's episodes the sudden onset of religiosity was caused by a tumor).

Further, I would also want to caution you to be careful what you write here. If your wife reads some of your posts, she might freak out and that will only aggravate things at home.

All the best of luck to you and your family. I truly hope you can work it out.

Clarence

BTW, could her desire for more children have anything to do with the Christian credo to "go forth, and multiply"?

User avatar
reflection
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby reflection » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:09 pm

I don't have any experience with such situations, so I would be a fool to tell you what is best here. Also I've not read all the replies, so maybe I missed some details. However, I think I can give a general piece of advise, up to you to decide what you do with it.

You've now shared about your wives attitude towards religion, but there are many more aspects to a person. Sure you married to her in the first place, so there are also still beautiful aspects to her. And there are also many more aspects to raising a child. Perhaps it's an idea to not focus on only this one point of religion (however big it may be or seem). Most important is love. If she can raise your kids lovingly, that's worth more than any religion in my eyes.

If both of you can agree on having different points of view or somehow can find a middle way, that'll also teach your kids a lot about tolerance, cooperation etc. Kids pick up stuff on very deep levels of feeling we often are not aware of. I imagine worst thing to do is to let your kids feel like they are in the middle of an argument of sorts, if you get what I mean. Agreeing to disagree is also an agreement, I think will bring some peace into the family.

That aside, I personally think a child should not be raised in any religion at all. That's stuff for grown ups. Perhaps, just maybe, you can agree on both not intentionally sharing things of this nature with your child. So this includes no Christian education, but also not taking her to monasteries. I can imagine -even if you say Buddhism is based on investigation- to your child it will not seem like this anyway. People bowing to statues, chanting strange words.. now for a 8-year old doesn't that resemble Christianity ? I know I wouldn't have been able to see the difference at that age. In my humble opinion, best way to keep her open minded is to keep her away from all that stuff. An 8 year old should wonder about the hair style of her dolls instead of the universe, philosophy, Buddha or Jesus.

In any way, there are multiple people involved here. Never forget to take your wife into account. Christians often wonder what Jesus would do, but it's at least just as useful to think what Buddha would do. Whatever that is, I'm sure it is out of kindness. To call her "strongly deluded", well, not wanting to be judgmental, but it may not be the most gentle approach.

With metta and all the best,
Reflection

User avatar
puppha
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:56 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby puppha » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:40 pm


User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby daverupa » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:47 pm

It seems as though conversation hasn't got much of a chance, as you see it. So, in lieu of that, the choice is either keep on keepin' on, or a separation/divorce alongside custody arrangements.

:juggling:

User avatar
reflection
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby reflection » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:26 pm

Last edited by reflection on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Anagarika
Posts: 914
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:25 pm

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby Anagarika » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:34 pm


User avatar
Khalil Bodhi
Posts: 2206
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:32 pm
Location: NYC
Contact:

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:06 pm

MODERATOR NOTE: Off-topic posts will be removed without warning.
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

Uposatha Observance Club:
My Practice Blog:

User avatar
puppha
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:56 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby puppha » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:18 pm


corrine
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:33 pm

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby corrine » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:42 pm

I agree with the poster who said that it might be a good idea to refrain from bringing more children into this situation. You do not have to have more children if you do not wish to do so. You have the freedom to 'just say no'. I wish you luck in dealing with this situation. From my experience, those who convert to fundamentalism become more and more fanatical in their practice. Your daughter needs to hear other views - your views - whether or not your wife approves. She is your daughter too.

corrine

makarasilapin
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:46 pm

Re: Having children with a strongly deluded spouse?

Postby makarasilapin » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:39 pm

holy crap, i feel for you man but i don't think there is too much to debate here, ie. get out of the relationship and try to get custody of your daughter, and raise her to have a rational mind...

obviously it's going to take some time to do this as harmlessly as possible, but the sooner the better. best of luck, my friend!


Return to “Sīla”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine