jhana pre buddhist, hinduism today and so on.

[alan...]

Only some enthusiasts attain samadhi, it is not a widely known art, as in ancient India.

I rather doubt that samadhi was any more widely known in "ancient India" than it is now.

i didn't say that.

this should say:

Only some enthusiasts attain samadhi, it is not a widely known art, as in ancient India.

[alan...]

When I read modern authoritative commentaries, for example, on Yoga-Sutra, it is evident for me that the authors don't comprehend the full meaning of the text.

The same applies to the Suttas. The translators who render "nimitta" of jhana as "sign", IMHO, don't know some important practical nuances of the original texts.

you know better than modern authoritative commentators, for example, on the yoga sutra and all translators who render "nimitta" of jhana as "sign"? what qualifications do you have to make such bold, sweeping statements?

that's impressive and surely deserves further explanation as to how you came to be such an authority on these topics.

[tiltbillings]

For got to delete

Code: Select all

[quote="alan..."]

. Corrected versrion:

Only some enthusiasts attain samadhi, it is not a widely known art, as in ancient India.

I rather doubt that samadhi was any more widely known in "ancient India" than it is now.

[alan...]

For got to delete

Code: Select all

[quote="alan..."]

. Corrected versrion:

Only some enthusiasts attain samadhi, it is not a widely known art, as in ancient India.

I rather doubt that samadhi was any more widely known in "ancient India" than it is now.

thanks

[Dmytro]

you know better than modern authoritative commentators, for example, on the yoga sutra and all translators who render "nimitta" of jhana as "sign"? what qualifications do you have to make such bold, sweeping statements?

that's impressive and surely deserves further explanation as to how you came to be such an authority on these topics.

It's amazing that you consider a bold and sweeping statement my opinion on the meaning of the term 'nimitta' in jhana.
Seems like that anyone who dares to have such opinion should have authority and status?

The 'sign' translation was introduced at the times of Thomas Rhys-Davids Pali-English dictionary, which was considered then to be a milestone with much to improve later. However it did not undergo improvement for almost a century, and all the imperfections and errors of this dictionary came to be "canonized" in the Western Buddhism. Now hardly anyone will question the inventions like "The Four Noble Thuths".

Well, if you are looking for authorities with qualifications, I can refer you to Stephen Hodge,

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2770#p39219
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Stephen_Hodge

and to the President of the Pali Text Society, Rupert Gethin, who in agreement with Stephen Hodge connects the term 'nimitta' with 'pratibimba' in his book "Foundations of Buddhism".

Also, as for the dictionaries, I would recommend you the new Pali-English dictionary by Margaret Cone. You may definitely enjoy reading the definition of 'nimitta' from there, which is much improved over the Rhys-Davids'es version.

[beeblebrox]

Hi Dmytro, thanks for that link on the "four noble truths" translation issues, and also for pointing out the meaning of nimitta. I think that "sign" can be read as "representation," but probably that's not how some people would read it, so it's important.

[daverupa]

Hi Dmytro, thanks for that link on the "four noble truths" translation issues, and also for pointing out the meaning of nimitta. I think that "sign" can be read as "representation," but probably that's not how some people would read it, so it's important.

I take nimitta as "theme" in most cases, but it's a lively word.

[alan...]

you know better than modern authoritative commentators, for example, on the yoga sutra and all translators who render "nimitta" of jhana as "sign"? what qualifications do you have to make such bold, sweeping statements?

that's impressive and surely deserves further explanation as to how you came to be such an authority on these topics.

It's amazing that you consider a bold and sweeping statement my opinion on the meaning of the term 'nimitta' in jhana.
Seems like that anyone who dares to have such opinion should have authority and status?

opinion: definition 3 a: "a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/opinion

[beeblebrox]

Hi Alan, why this quibble?

As far as I could see, Dmytro did take enough care to say "IMHO" in his post... whether you believed that or not.

[Doshin]

you know better than modern authoritative commentators, for example, on the yoga sutra and all translators who render "nimitta" of jhana as "sign"? what qualifications do you have to make such bold, sweeping statements?

that's impressive and surely deserves further explanation as to how you came to be such an authority on these topics.

It's amazing that you consider a bold and sweeping statement my opinion on the meaning of the term 'nimitta' in jhana.
Seems like that anyone who dares to have such opinion should have authority and status?

opinion: definition 3 a: "a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/opinion

(also) from your link:
opinion: definition 2a : "belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge"

I think that is a more fitting definition in this case. The list of definitions is not a "all must apply" list, but a "any could apply" list; you must understand the context to know which definition you find most fitting. Well that's just my opinion ;)

_/\_

[Dmytro]

Thank you, Alan, I appreciate your reference.

Speaking about qualifications - I'm a qualified definitionalist

[alan...]

Thank you, Alan, I appreciate your reference.

Speaking about qualifications - I'm a qualified definitionalist

yeah hey mostly i was just playing around man. hope you know that. i was just responding to you quoting me the def. of "largely" earlier. have a good one.

[rahul3bds]

Any tradition is a system of transferring knowledge, - a process of education which involves terminology. Samadhi states exist independently of traditions. With the partial lost of terminology, the art of education is partly lost. And then talented enthusiasts attain samadhi, but can't teach it to public at large.

Exactly.

Only some enthusiasts attain samadhi, it is not a widely known art, as in ancient India.

I rather doubt that samadhi was any more widely known in "ancient India" than it is now.

well, that is laughable.

[tiltbillings]

Only some enthusiasts attain samadhi, it is not a widely known art, as in ancient India.

I rather doubt that samadhi was any more widely known in "ancient India" than it is now.

well, that is laughable.

Is it?

[rahul3bds]

yes it is.

[tiltbillings]

yes it is.

Thank you for sharing your opinion; however, I wonder if there is anything to support it?

[rahul3bds]

im from india, i know about its traditions.

[tiltbillings]

im from india, i know about its traditions.

That's nice, but being from India does not automatically make you an expert on how many people are practicing samadhi at any one time, unless you have done a careful survey of the practitioners of the various tradition which you claim to know. And how many people in the Buddha's time did samadhi practice?

[rahul3bds]

heard of shamana tradition? Entirely based on samadhi.

[rahul3bds]

oops i mis spell its shramana