tiltbillings wrote:It is a rather interesting question. If we are deluded, having to start from where we are, a state of delusion, how do we get undeluded all the while having to deal with a deluded mind, having to deal with a deluded sense of self?equilibrium wrote:Conventional self is the same as a deluded self, a self that is fabricated by wrong views.....all based on believe supported by the deluded mind.robertk wrote:Is there a conventional self who decides?
A decision can be made either one is deluded or not. As the mind is deluded, one cannot be certain ones decisions are right.
One must be deluded unless one has reached Nibbana and beyond, even then, there are still traces of delusion left until one is a fully enlightened Buddha.
Should one achieve Nibbana (Arahart) one is no longer deluded as such, well, enough for one to escape samsara that is.....so the deluded mind needs to get undeluded.
When we say delusion/ignorance, the mind is simply not knowing.....so the mind needs to know something so to escape, this is where the teaching comes in.
Yet the teaching is only just a tool, a purpose.....so the mind can realize for itself reality. This reality must replace what the mind previously believed so the mind itself no longer do things which are deluded.
One cannot be undeluded if there is no realization in the mind as it is the mind that needs to be set free.
It must be a constant battle while one tries to learn from the teaching while the same time, the deluded self is having its own opinions.....so we need to be mindful that these opinions are nothing but self created fabrications which cannot be trusted on.
Maybe we should rely on the teaching and the N8P to keep us being right.