Female monks cause a stir - Bangkok Post

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.

Re: Female monks cause a stir - Bangkok Post

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:59 pm

aren't there a small number of Bhikkhuni in Thailand already? ordained originally in the Dharmagumpta lineage but follow the Theravada vinaya?
maybe they are from there??????
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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Re: Female monks cause a stir - Bangkok Post

Postby GraemeR » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:45 am

Cittasanto wrote:aren't there a small number of Bhikkhuni in Thailand already? ordained originally in the Dharmagumpta lineage but follow the Theravada vinaya?
maybe they are from there??????


From my understanding the linage was broken, as only a abbess, not an abbot, could ordain nuns, so it stopped in Thailand, though not in other Buddhist countries.

There are however nuns ordained in other countries in Thailand and also some ordained in Thailand, though the majority of the male Sangha don't recognise them. Hence this article, which may appear bizarre to a western reader.

Some nuns I have met were ordained as Mahayana (perhaps also Dhamagupta) in Vietnam. Some were ordained in Western countries.

http://www.iwmcf.org/IWMC.html This is one centre.

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Female monks cause a stir - Bangkok Post

Postby GraemeR » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:53 am

gavesako wrote:In Bangkok this is still a rare and possibly confusing sight, but in some other parts of Thailand there are places in which both the white-robed mae chee and the brown-robed samaneri / bhikkhuni have been collecting almsfood regularly on the streets. In northern Thailand, south of Chiang Mai, there is probably the biggest training center for bhikkhunis called Nirotharam.

Dear Ven Gavesako,

I think the difference here is the nuns in Bkk were in saffron robes.

I have never seen nuns in white robes (8 precept) doing an alms round in the areas I have lived, so it as interesting to see the video. Some nunnerys don't practice alms round at all.

I didn't think nuns were ordained with brown robes (10 precept) in Thailand.

As I recall nuns in Britain were ordained and wore brown robes, but voluntarily followed the full 227 precepts the same as the monks. Perhaps you could clarify this.

With metta,

Graham
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Re: Female monks cause a stir - Bangkok Post

Postby gavesako » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:39 pm

The Siladhara in England follow the basic 10 precepts (like a Samanera/Samaneri novice) plus some other selected guidelines from the Vinaya.

In Thailand, there are already several centers where Samaneris or Bhikkhunis live, scattered in different provinces. The problem is that most of them do not offer any formal training so there might be widely different Vinaya standards and conventions followed in those places. In Songkhla, south Thailand, there is one center where the Bhikkhunis and also white-robed Mae Chee go regularly on almsround.

The well-known place in Nakhon Pathom, near Bangkok, is where Bhikkhuni Dhammananda lives and she has been quite prominent also in the Thai media. They also go out on pindapata like this. See www.thaibhikkhunis.org
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Re: Female monks cause a stir - Bangkok Post

Postby Anagarika » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:35 pm

About the senior monks in Chiang Mai: Ven Nandanyani is accepted by them as a Theravada bhikkhuni. The district head monk spoke about this explicitly. He mentioned gratitude to Sri Lanka for restoring the bhikkhuni lineage in Thailand, as had been done for the bhikkhu lineage in past. He spoke of how the Mahayana had been replete in borisat-si (4 assemblies) and that it is a blessing for the present and future of Buddhism in Thailand if the borisat-si be replete with bhikkhunis who are replete in sila (which he explained meant patimokkha sila), samadhi (which he said Ajahn Nandayani is very good with) and panna (which he said she is also very good with as a Dhamma teacher). He said that to be replete for the blessing and welfare of the long life of Sasana and to fulfill the Buddha's Teaching, that the Nirotharam bhikkhunis should learn and practice Vinaya well, in addition to their being good in samadhi and panna.



Bhante, this is really good news. I would have guessed, and been wrong, that the Thai Sangha Council would not have permitted such an endorsement from the district head Bhikkhu. I am very glad that you shared this information. I look to be in Chiang Mai region this year, and I'm going to make effort to visit Wat Nirotharam when there.
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