Becoming

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Śūnyatā
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Becoming

Postby Śūnyatā » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:05 pm

Hi Dhamma friends :

I often vacillate between intuitively understanding the concept of becoming and questioning if I actually do. I would love to hear, in your own words, how you personally define becoming. Or, if you'd like to point me in the direction of a definition by a Dhamma teacher you feel explains it well or a previous post on this board from years past, I’m open to it all.

Thank you!!

With gratitude :
Śūn
Live in joy, In love, Even among those who hate. Live in joy, In health, Even among the afflicted. Live in joy, In peace, Even among the troubled. Look within. Be still. — Dhammapada

Being a human being is not an end in itself. It’s only a transition. It can never be a perfect state in itself. It’s merely a convention. — Luang Por Sumedho

Question everything. Learn something. Answer nothing. — Euripides

lojong1
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Re: Becoming

Postby lojong1 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:18 pm

I have not read it yet, but am excited to see a whole book about it:

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Śūnyatā
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Re: Becoming

Postby Śūnyatā » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:28 pm

Last edited by Śūnyatā on Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Live in joy, In love, Even among those who hate. Live in joy, In health, Even among the afflicted. Live in joy, In peace, Even among the troubled. Look within. Be still. — Dhammapada

Being a human being is not an end in itself. It’s only a transition. It can never be a perfect state in itself. It’s merely a convention. — Luang Por Sumedho

Question everything. Learn something. Answer nothing. — Euripides

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gavesako
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Re: Becoming

Postby gavesako » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:38 pm

This is an excellent book with many useful Sutta quotes (and references to Chaos Theory if you are into it!).
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

Digity
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Re: Becoming

Postby Digity » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:21 pm

Definition: Become - Grow to be; turn into.

Given the definition...if you're released of the idea of a "self" I could see this desire to "become" would naturally drop away. It's because we're attached to this idea of the "self" and wish to "turn it into" something that we keep becoming. Although, the desire to "become" is important in the Buddhist Path, because you should want to become Awakened.

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Aloka
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Re: Becoming

Postby Aloka » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:22 pm


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ground
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Re: Becoming

Postby ground » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:13 am


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Jason
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Re: Becoming

Postby Jason » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:25 pm

Last edited by Jason on Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

(Buddhist-related blog)
(non-Buddhist related blog)

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gavesako
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Re: Becoming

Postby gavesako » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:26 pm

Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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Śūnyatā
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Re: Becoming

Postby Śūnyatā » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:33 pm

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses; they are much appreciated. _/\_

I stumbled on an excellent Dhamma talk by Ajahn Brahm today (link to it below) and one quote in particular struck a chord with me:

Attachment is born by the illusion of ownership.

The talk: http://www.theravada-dhamma.org/blog/?p=10802

With warmth :
Sun
Live in joy, In love, Even among those who hate. Live in joy, In health, Even among the afflicted. Live in joy, In peace, Even among the troubled. Look within. Be still. — Dhammapada

Being a human being is not an end in itself. It’s only a transition. It can never be a perfect state in itself. It’s merely a convention. — Luang Por Sumedho

Question everything. Learn something. Answer nothing. — Euripides

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gavesako
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Re: Becoming

Postby gavesako » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:49 am

Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Becoming

Postby Spiny Norman » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:38 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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kirk5a
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Re: Becoming

Postby kirk5a » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:56 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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zavk
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Re: Becoming

Postby zavk » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:18 am

With metta,
zavk

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anjali
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Re: Becoming

Postby anjali » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:48 am

Hi Sunyata,

I tend to think of becoming from the point of view of the fire sermon. A flame is in a constant state of becoming as long as there is fuel to support the fire. When the fuel is exhausted, the flame is no longer in a state of becoming and is released. The metaphor works for people who are in a state of continuous clinging (becoming) until craving is exhausted.

Kind regards...

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polarbear101
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Re: Becoming

Postby polarbear101 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:01 am

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

pegembara
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Re: Becoming

Postby pegembara » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:02 am

Bhava refers to existence.

Bhavanirodho nibbanam, bhavanirodho nibbànan’ti kho me, avuso, anna’va sanna uppajjati anna’va sanna nirujjhati.
Seyyathapi, avuso, sakalikaggissa jhàyamànassa annà’va acci uppajjati, annà’va acci nirujjhati, evam eva kho me àvuso bhavanirodho nibbànam, bhavanirodho nibbànam ‘ti annà’va sannà uppajjati annà’va sannà nirujjhati, bhavanirodho nibbànam sannã ca panàham, àvuso, tasmim samaye ahosim.

“One perception arises in me, friend: `cessation of existence is Nibbàna’, `cessation of existence is Nibbàna’, and an other perception fades out in me: `cessation of existence is Nibbana cessation of existence is Nibbàna’.

Bhavatanha - clinging to existence
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

pegembara
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Re: Becoming

Postby pegembara » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:16 am

`Ye ca rupupagà sattà
Ye ca arupatthàyino
Nirodham appajànantà
âgantàro punabbhavam'

`Those beings who approach realms of form and those that are in formless realms, not understanding well the fact of cessation, come again and again to existence.' (trans. Bhikkhu Nanananda SEEING THROUGH
- A Guide to Insight Meditation -)

Dvayatànupassanà Sutta
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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SDC
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Re: Becoming

Postby SDC » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:41 am

I think ‘becoming’ is a misleading rendering of bhāva.

Why?

‘Becoming’ is too accurate of a description of reality.

Why is an accurate description of reality bad?

Because that isn’t what bhāva is explaining.

In the “non-three lives interpretation” of the paṭicca-samuppāda, bhāva is the idea that “I am” or “I exist” – part of a systematic misinterpretation of experience which leads to this whole mass of suffering. So in order to properly reflect this, it makes more sense to use a word such as ‘being’ or ‘existing', as opposed to 'becoming', since these words clearly convey acceptance of the idea of a self which is paramount for what comes next in the PS.

:smile:

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daverupa
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Re: Becoming

Postby daverupa » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:52 pm

Is there any reason why we might want to differentiate bhava "being" from satta "being"?


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