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The causes for wisdom - Page 19 - Dhamma Wheel

The causes for wisdom

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Virgo
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Virgo » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:37 am



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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:25 am


Sylvester
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Sylvester » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:00 am

Hmm, if stream entry is an absolute pre-requisite to practise by this theory, how will that sit with the model in MN 70 that even the Dhamma-followers and Faith-followers have a duty with heedfulness (appamādena karaṇīyanti)?

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Mr Man
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Mr Man » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:24 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:24 am


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Dan74
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Dan74 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:43 am

It's the last paragraph that is the most interesting for me - Nina van Gorkom saying that anapanasati is only for the gifted, the great disciples.

I definitely think that there should be a discussion of whether meditation has taken a disproportionately large place in Western Buddhist practice, but saying that it's only "for the great disciples, for the gifted" may be going way too far!

Perhaps knowledgeable people can bring some scriptural evidence to show that

1. The Buddha exhorted his monks to meditate in various ways (anapanasati, parts of the body, metta, etc)

or

2. The Buddha taught meditation only to the most gifted.

It seems that the tradition evolved so that the lay did not meditate outside the Mahayana. But was that what the Buddha intended?

Of course it may also be the case that meditation is more needed now than in the times of the Buddha when his disciples' minds were perhaps not as cluttered and their egos not as big as ours.

For me, meditation has been a wonderful gift that has helped make sense of the Dhamma and I slowly introduce it to my children and of course share with any friend who asks. I highly doubt that I am gifted and certainly not a "great disciple" by any stretch of imagination. Recent studies in mindfulness based cognitive psychology have shown an anapanasati type practice even divorced from the Dhamma, can be very beneficial for people's well-being. How much more so, when founded upon the Right View?
_/|\_

Sylvester
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Sylvester » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:04 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:11 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:12 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:04 am


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polarbear101
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby polarbear101 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:25 am

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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robertk
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby robertk » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:39 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:57 am

Robertk:

So, even though Buddhaghosa advocates deliberate sitting meditation practice, you are taking this passage as being a support for the Sujin-style rejection of sitting meditation as we see in the very provocative Sujin talk Kevin linked?

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Mr Man
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Mr Man » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:59 am

Hi robertk
In the interview Nina van Gorkom says "It is most difficult to be aware of breath, before one knows it one takes for breath what is something else, air produced by other factors, not breath". It there a slightly different definition of "breath here? What does "air produced by other factors" mean?

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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:38 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:51 am


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Dan74
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Dan74 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:24 am

I'm guessing there is no school, tradition or lineage that is immune from "triumphalism."

It reinforces the faith of the adherents and at the same time closes the door on exploring what others have to offer.
_/|\_

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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:29 am


dhamma follower
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby dhamma follower » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:36 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:52 pm



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