Early translation of Pali

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Tom
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Early translation of Pali

Post by Tom »

When westerners first encountered the Pali language, how were they able to translate it?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Post by tiltbillings »

ccharles wrote:When westerners first encountered the Pali language, how were they able to translate it?
Sanskrit was a known language.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Tom
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Post by Tom »

tiltbillings wrote:
ccharles wrote:When westerners first encountered the Pali language, how were they able to translate it?
Sanskrit was a known language.
I don't know much about the relationship between the two languages, but how did they use their knowledge of Sanskrit to translate Pali? I was wondering if whether or not the first western translators in Sri Lanka, for example, would've learned Pali, via their knowledge of the Sinhala language, from scholar monks who knew both languages.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Post by tiltbillings »

ccharles wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
ccharles wrote:When westerners first encountered the Pali language, how were they able to translate it?
Sanskrit was a known language.
I don't know much about the relationship between the two languages, but how did they use their knowledge of Sanskrit to translate Pali? I was wondering if whether or not the first western translators in Sri Lanka, for example, would've learned Pali, via their knowledge of the Sinhala language, from scholar monks who knew both languages.
Pali is a prakrit. Both Pali and Sanskrit come from a common source, making them very closely related following much the same grammatical rules. Knowing Sanskrit makes learning Pali very easy.

This is a decent discussion of Pali: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%81li" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Post by tiltbillings »

One of the more interesting early translations from the Pali:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/bits/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
pulga
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Post by pulga »

ccharles wrote:I don't know much about the relationship between the two languages, but how did they use their knowledge of Sanskrit to translate Pali? I was wondering if whether or not the first western translators in Sri Lanka, for example, would've learned Pali, via their knowledge of the Sinhala language, from scholar monks who knew both languages.
Some of the earliest comprehensive expositions of Theravada came from the Christian missionary Robert Spence Hardy. He knew no Pali: what he learned of Buddhism came from his fluency in Sinhala. Though his writings have a Christian bias, they do offer at times a fascinating, firsthand description of Sinhala Buddhism in Ceylon before Colonel Olcott and the Theosophists became involved with the religion.

As far as learning about Buddhism through Pali, I believe the Rev. D.J. Gogerly preceded Spence Hardy by a generation or so, and produced some of the earliest translations into English.
"Dhammā=Ideas. This is the clue to much of the Buddha's teaching." ~ Ven. Ñanavira, Commonplace Book
Tom
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Post by Tom »

pulga wrote:
ccharles wrote:I don't know much about the relationship between the two languages, but how did they use their knowledge of Sanskrit to translate Pali? I was wondering if whether or not the first western translators in Sri Lanka, for example, would've learned Pali, via their knowledge of the Sinhala language, from scholar monks who knew both languages.
Some of the earliest comprehensive expositions of Theravada came from the Christian missionary Robert Spence Hardy. He knew no Pali: what he learned of Buddhism came from his fluency in Sinhala. Though his writings have a Christian bias, they do offer at times a fascinating, firsthand description of Sinhala Buddhism in Ceylon before Colonel Olcott and the Theosophists became involved with the religion.

As far as learning about Buddhism through Pali, I believe the Rev. D.J. Gogerly preceded Spence Hardy by a generation or so, and produced some of the earliest translations into English.
By what process did the Rev. D.J. Gogerly learn Pali?
pulga
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Post by pulga »

ccharles wrote:By what process did the Rev. D.J. Gogerly learn Pali?
I'm afraid I don't know that much about Gogerly. I believe a two volume set of his essays and translations were printed a long while ago. If you Google his name you should be able to locate the pdf download for his books which are in the public domain. Just reading over the preface should give you the answer you're looking for. Good luck.
"Dhammā=Ideas. This is the clue to much of the Buddha's teaching." ~ Ven. Ñanavira, Commonplace Book
daverupa
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Re: Early translation of Pali

Post by daverupa »

tiltbillings wrote:One of the more interesting early translations from the Pali:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/bits/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Then drew near Milinda the king to where the venerable Nâgasena; and having passed the compliments of friendship and civility, he sat down respectfully at one side. And the venerable Nâgasena returned the greeting; by which, verily, he won the heart of king Milinda.
:clap:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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