Religious Harmony

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Religious Harmony

Postby Cassandra » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:16 pm

Are there sutta quotes where Buddha promotes harmony and tolerance with other faiths and beliefs even though they are rejected in Buddhism? If so please post them.
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:18 pm

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby Cassandra » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:33 pm

Can you post quotes directly please with the sutta name? Sorry but I am a lazy reader
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby SDC » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:40 pm

Yeah, tilt. Get it together. :tongue:
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby Cassandra » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:44 pm

Right now I am looking for quotes along the lines of "Monks, maintain harmony and tolerance towards other faiths even though you disagree with them".
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:00 pm

Not exactly what you are looking for, but in one passage a lay man named Upali comes to the Buddha asking to join the Dhamma (Buddhism). The Buddha states:

Make a proper investigation first. Proper investigation is good for a well-known person like yourself. [Upali responds]:

Now I am even more pleased and satisfied when the Buddha says to me: 'Make a proper investigation first.' For if members of another religion had secured me as a disciple they would have paraded a banner all around the town saying: 'Upali has joined our religion.' But the Buddha says to me: Make a proper investigation first. Proper investigation is good for a well-known person like yourself”." (Majjhima Nikaya 2.379)
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:49 pm

Cassandra wrote:Can you post quotes directly please with the sutta name? Sorry but I am a lazy reader
No. You have an excellent resource I linked above. Why would you expect a complete stranger to do the work for you if you are not willing to do any work? If you are lazy, time to get over it.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby Ben » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:05 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Cassandra wrote:Can you post quotes directly please with the sutta name? Sorry but I am a lazy reader
No. You have an excellent resource I linked above. Why would you expect a complete stranger to do the work for you if you are not willing to do any work? If you are lazy, time to get over it.


Well said, Tilt.
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby Cassandra » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:04 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Cassandra wrote:Can you post quotes directly please with the sutta name? Sorry but I am a lazy reader
No. You have an excellent resource I linked above. Why would you expect a complete stranger to do the work for you if you are not willing to do any work? If you are lazy, time to get over it.


Ben wrote:Well said, Tilt.


Sheesh, why do you let the laziness of a complete stranger offend you? I was looking for quotes for an urgent school assignment and I really didn't have the time to hunt for quotes in a lengthy article. I was looking for straightforward quotes with sutta names. But I have kept your article aside for later reading.

Perhaps 'lazy' wasn't the best choice of words but I wasn't expecting anyone to take offense at a mere forum comment especially considering that you two are senior moderators/admins in a prestigious Buddhist forum. Anyway, my apologies if it helps.
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby Cassandra » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:08 am

David N. Snyder wrote:Not exactly what you are looking for, but in one passage a lay man named Upali comes to the Buddha asking to join the Dhamma (Buddhism). The Buddha states:

Make a proper investigation first. Proper investigation is good for a well-known person like yourself. [Upali responds]:

Now I am even more pleased and satisfied when the Buddha says to me: 'Make a proper investigation first.' For if members of another religion had secured me as a disciple they would have paraded a banner all around the town saying: 'Upali has joined our religion.' But the Buddha says to me: Make a proper investigation first. Proper investigation is good for a well-known person like yourself”." (Majjhima Nikaya 2.379)


Thanks David. Guess there are not many quotes similar to what I need. I have searched but couldn't find a lot either. This is for an assignment which addresses disputes in beliefs and practices such as vegetarianism.
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:20 am

Cassandra wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Cassandra wrote:Can you post quotes directly please with the sutta name? Sorry but I am a lazy reader
No. You have an excellent resource I linked above. Why would you expect a complete stranger to do the work for you if you are not willing to do any work? If you are lazy, time to get over it.


Ben wrote:Well said, Tilt.


Sheesh, why do you let the laziness of a complete stranger offend you? I was looking for quotes for an urgent school assignment and I really didn't have the time to hunt for quotes in a lengthy article. I was looking for straightforward quotes with sutta names. But I have kept your article aside for later reading.

Perhaps 'lazy' wasn't the best choice of words but I wasn't expecting anyone to take offense at a mere forum comment especially considering that you two are senior moderators/admins in a prestigious Buddhist forum. Anyway, my apologies if it helps.
Not at all offended, but not too terribly interested in doing school work for someone who waits till the last minute, wanting others bail her butt of a jam and is too lazy to do the heavy lifting that is required. Good luck with your assignment and with learning to take responsibility for what is required of you to do.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby Ben » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:56 am

Cassandra wrote:Sheesh, why do you let the laziness of a complete stranger offend you? I was looking for quotes for an urgent school assignment and I really didn't have the time to hunt for quotes in a lengthy article. I was looking for straightforward quotes with sutta names. But I have kept your article aside for later reading.

Perhaps 'lazy' wasn't the best choice of words but I wasn't expecting anyone to take offense at a mere forum comment especially considering that you two are senior moderators/admins in a prestigious Buddhist forum. Anyway, my apologies if it helps.


No offence taken. We get plent of people just like you who join merely complete a school assignment. Let me be clear, this forum is for the benefit of those who are practicing Theravadins and those who have a genuine interest in the Theravada. Our membership is not here to do your homework research for you.
kind regards,

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby SDC » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:13 pm

Cassandra wrote:Can you post quotes directly please with the sutta name? Sorry but I am a lazy reader


Sorry to get involved, Cassandra, but when I read the above quote I thought you sounded obnoxious and impatient despite your use of 'please' and 'sorry'. Just the way it came off. There are better ways to ask for help especially when you are asking people to take the time to do research for you. It's not like people have things memorized waiting for people to ask questions.

Tilt can be very blunt sometimes, but I understand where he was coming from on this one.
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby santa100 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:31 pm

Perhaps the reason why we don't hear any explicit message in the Canon about religious harmony is because the Buddha didn't really care about the superficial label of this or that religion. Instead he cared about the truths that penetrate all religions: morality, purification of the mind, and wisdom. For example, when a group of Brahmins argued about how to to be in harmony with God, He didn't waste time discussing metaphysical concepts about whether God exists or not. Instead, he went straight to the core of the issue: morality and purification of mind:
“Then you say, too, Va̅seṭṭha, that the Brahmins bear anger and malice in their hearts, and are tarnished in heart and lack self control, while Brahma̅ is free from anger and malice, is pure in heart, and has self-mastery. Now can there then be agreement and likeness between the Brahmins and Brahma̅?'

'Certainly not, Gotama!'

'Very good, Va̅seṭṭha. That these Brahmins versed in the Vedas and yet having anger and malice in their hearts, sinful, and uncontrolled, should after death, at the break up of the body, become united with Brahma̅, who is free from anger and malice, pure in heart, and has self-mastery -- such a thing is impossible!”
(Tevijja Sutta, Dīgha Nikāya, http://www.leighb.com/dn13.htm )


Another good example about the Buddha's emphasis on the "core" and not the "skin" of religion is the Kalama sutta:
“Of course you are uncertain, Kalamas. Of course you are in doubt. When there are reasons for doubt, uncertainty is born. So in this case, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering' — then you should abandon them.
(Kalama Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html )
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby Cassandra » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:40 pm

Good point there santa. Thanks. Another reason for lack of such quotes maybe that, in the old days they did not have as many disputes and wars between religions as we do now. It seems that most brahmins and other recluses with different beliefs criticized and disagreed in constructive ways. Maybe there were no pressing concerns to make such statements.
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby santa100 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:51 pm

Actuallly, back then there were quite a lot of schools/philosophies/religions that constantly argue against one another. The Buddha simply didn't get entangled in such frivolous activities. He simply focused on the most immediate issue of suffering and how to put an end to it:
[As for the teachings that promote] the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead to dispassion, not to passion; to being unfettered, not to being fettered; to shedding, not to accumulating; to modesty, not to self-aggrandizement; to contentment, not to discontent; to seclusion, not to entanglement; to aroused persistence, not to laziness; to being unburdensome, not to being burdensome': You may categorically hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction.' ( AN 8.53 )
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby Cassandra » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:02 pm

Yea but are there records of major blood baths and civil conflicts on religious disputes such as the jews and hitler/Israeli–Palestinian/Hindu-Muslim in India to name a few? I haven't heard of any.

Edit: What I meant to say was that, if there were above Buddha might have commented on it. It looks like he had made comments regarding matters of lay life on other instances.
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby santa100 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:34 pm

All the more respect to the Buddha's wisdom when He taught not to cling to those "jungles" or "thickets" of view. This is the true message of religious harmony. One could preach messages of harmony all they want, and if at the end of the day, one still clings to the idea of my God is bigger and better than your God, or only my philosophy is better than yours, then that's not true religious harmony. It'll only perpetuate the bloodshed..
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby Cassandra » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:11 pm

santa100 wrote:All the more respect to the Buddha's wisdom when He taught not to cling to those "jungles" or "thickets" of view. This is the true message of religious harmony. One could preach messages of harmony all they want, and if at the end of the day, one still clings to the idea of my God is bigger and better than your God, or only my philosophy is better than yours, then that's not true religious harmony. It'll only perpetuate the bloodshed..


+1
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Re: Religious Harmony

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:33 pm

There is a sutta where the Buddha says that any philosophy in which the Noble Eightfold Path is found can produce arahants, but I can't find it offhand. Any ideas?
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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