What is the last thing to let go?

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What is the last thing to let go?

Postby SarathW » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:06 am

I am just think in term of six senses and ten fetters. Is there something you let go last? Say I let go my eye, ear, tongue etc consciousness.
I think all this is not me, mine myself in terms of mental formations and body.

But "I" still see "I" am sitting here and writing this post.

So how can "I" let go everything and dive into Nirvana? :)
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Re: What is the last thing to let go?

Postby Murkve » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:27 am

It is my understanding that the absolute last thing to be let go is attachment to Dhamma.

However in terms of the dismantling of the self, I am not sure of the order here. I'd be very interested in how this is accomplished as well.
"Change alone is eternal, perpetual, immortal." - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Re: What is the last thing to let go?

Postby equilibrium » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:28 am

SarathW wrote:.....
So does one who reaches Nirvana becomes blind & deaf.....or lose all six senses and associated consciousness?
Would one who dies enters Nirvana?
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Re: What is the last thing to let go?

Postby Prasadachitta » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:17 am

Conceit, restlessness, & ignorance are the last to go. Craving for sense pleasures comes to an end before these but that does not mean that ones senses do not function.

Metta

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Re: What is the last thing to let go?

Postby ground » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:00 am

Life. :sage:
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Re: What is the last thing to let go?

Postby manas » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:20 am

SarathW wrote:I am just think in term of six senses and ten fetters. Is there something you let go last? Say I let go my eye, ear, tongue etc consciousness.
I think all this is not me, mine myself in terms of mental formations and body.

But "I" still see "I" am sitting here and writing this post.

So how can "I" let go everything and dive into Nirvana? :)


What, like, right now?
Primum non nocere: "first, do no harm."
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Re: What is the last thing to let go?

Postby equilibrium » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:11 pm

SarathW wrote:.....
Maybe of interest.
AN 10.13-Fetters:

"There are these ten fetters. Which ten? Five lower fetters & five higher fetters.
And which are the five lower fetters? Self-identity views, uncertainty, grasping at precepts & practices, sensual desire, & ill will. These are the five lower fetters.
And which are the five higher fetters? Passion for form, passion for what is formless, conceit, restlessness, & ignorance. These are the five higher fetters.
And these are the ten fetters."

MN 118: Mindfulness of Breathing:

"In this community of monks there are monks who, with the total ending of [the first] three fetters, are stream-winners, steadfast, never again destined for states of woe, headed for self-awakening."
"In this community of monks there are monks who, with the total ending of [the first] three fetters, and with the attenuation of passion, aversion, & delusion, are once-returners, who — on returning only one more time to this world — will make an ending to stress...
"In this community of monks there are monks who, with the total ending of the five lower fetters, are due to be reappear [in the Pure Abodes], there to be totally unbound, never again to return from that world...
"In this community of monks there are monks who are arahants, whose effluents are ended, who have reached fulfillment, done the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, totally destroyed the fetter of becoming, and who are released through right gnosis...

The Abhidhamma in Practice: under Nibbaana: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... l#nibbaana
.....We will recognize these sign-posts when the fetters that bind us are broken in succession. When the first three fetters — personality view, doubt, and clinging to mere rules and rituals — are broken one becomes a "stream enterer" (sotaapanna), one who has entered the stream to nibbaana. The fetters, once broken, will never bind such a person again. This is the truth he knows without uncertainty. The stream-enterer will not be reborn in the four lower planes of existence. He will take rebirth seven times at the most, either in the human or heavenly planes.

When the next two fetters — sensuous craving and ill-will are attenuated, one becomes a "once-returner" (sakadaagaamii), due to return only once to the sense sphere world and then attain nibbaana.

When all the lower five fetters are eradicated, the disciple becomes a "non-returner" (anaagaami), who will never return to the sense sphere world but, after death, will be reborn in a pure divine abode and attain nibbaana there.

One who takes the next major step and eradicates the five higher fetters — desire for existence in fine material planes, desire for existence in the immaterial planes, conceit, restlessness, and ignorance — reaches the final goal. He is the arahant, free from all future becoming.
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Re: What is the last thing to let go?

Postby equilibrium » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:23 pm

Something of interest.....
Based on your other recent thread & pdf: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=16202&p=231246#p231246
A Manual of Abhidhamma: under "The Realisation of Nibbana" on Page 84 as follows:

Having thus gained a correct view of the real nature of his self, freed from the false notion of an identical substance of mind and matter, he attempts to investigate the cause of this “Ego-personality”. He realises that everything worldly, himself not excluded, is conditioned by causes past or present, and that this existence is due to past ignorance (avijjà), craving (taõhà), attachment (upàdàna), Kamma, and physical food (àhàra) of the present life.

On account of these five causes this personality has arisen and as the past activities have conditioned the present, so the present will condition the future. Meditating thus, he transcends all doubts with regard to the past, present, and future (Kankhàvitaraõavisuddhi). Thereupon he contemplates that all conditioned things are transient (Anicca), subject to suffering (Dukkha), and devoid of an immortal soul (Anattà). Wherever he turns his eyes, he sees nought but these three characteristics standing out in bold relief.

He realises that life is a mere flowing, a continuous undivided movement. Neither in a celestial plane nor on earth does he find any genuine happiness, for every form of pleasure is only a prelude to pain. What is transient is therefore subject to suffering and where change and sorrow prevail there cannot be a permanent ego.
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Re: What is the last thing to let go?

Postby Chi » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:02 pm

Ignorance of the Three Characteristics and the Four Noble Truths. Any trace of doubt regarding these.

An Arahant does not create new karma as any trace of a person creating karma is eradicated. However, he/she still must live with the ripening of old karma.
Do Good, Avoid Evil, Purify the Mind.
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Re: What is the last thing to let go?

Postby anjali » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:55 pm

SarathW wrote:Is there something you let go last?


Letting go of letting go...
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Re: What is the last thing to let go?

Postby drifting cloud » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:13 am

equilibrium wrote:So does one who reaches Nirvana becomes blind & deaf.....or lose all six senses and associated consciousness?


It's not a question of becoming blind and deaf; an arahat still receives sensory input so long as they are alive and have functioning organs and are in contact with sensible objects. Rather, it's that the links of affliction and attachment to the objects of the six senses are severed:

Nandaka: 'Sisters, it is just as if an adept butcher or butcher's apprentice, having killed a cow, were to carve it up with a sharp carving knife so that — without damaging the substance of the inner flesh, without damaging the substance of the outer hide — he would cut, sever, & detach only the skin muscles, connective tissues, & attachments in between; and having cut, severed, & detached the outer skin, and then covering the cow again with that very skin, he were to say that the cow was actually joined to the skin: Would he be speaking rightly?'

'No, sir. Why is that?... because no matter how much he might say that the cow was actually joined to the skin, the cow would still be disjoined from the skin.'

'This simile, sisters, I have given to convey a message. The message is this: The substance of the inner flesh stands for the six inner sense spheres [the senses]; the substance of the outer hide stands for the six outer sense spheres [their objects]. The skin muscles, connective tissues, & attachments in between stand for passion & delight. And the sharp knife stands for noble discernment, which cuts, severs, & detaches the defilements, fetters, & attachments in between.'
MN 146
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Re: What is the last thing to let go?

Postby drifting cloud » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:23 am

SarathW wrote:I am just think in term of six senses and ten fetters. Is there something you let go last?


The fetters are probably the best way to think of this; the last fetters that the arahat severs are:

desire for material rebirth
desire for immaterial rebirth
conceit
restlessness
ignorance

Based on this it appears that fundamental ignorance is the last fetter to be uprooted; since this is the root cause of suffering identified in the 12 links of dependent origination, ending this would put an end to "this whole mass of suffering".

The ending of the last five fetters is described in the Khemaka Sutta:

"In the same way, friends, even though a noble disciple has abandoned the five lower fetters, he still has with regard to the five clinging-aggregates a lingering residual 'I am' conceit, an 'I am' desire, an 'I am' obsession. But at a later time he keeps focusing on the phenomena of arising & passing away with regard to the five clinging-aggregates: 'Such is form, such its origin, such its disappearance. Such is feeling... Such is perception... Such are fabrications... Such is consciousness, such its origin, such its disappearance.' As he keeps focusing on the arising & passing away of these five clinging-aggregates, the lingering residual 'I am' conceit, 'I am' desire, 'I am' obsession is fully obliterated."


An extremely subtle clinging to self seems to be last thing to let go of.
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