contemplating the aggregates

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
SamKR
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby SamKR » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:24 am


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Spiny Norman
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:10 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

alan...
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby alan... » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:23 pm


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polarbear101
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby polarbear101 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:17 pm

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

alan...
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby alan... » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:45 pm


alan...
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby alan... » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:00 pm


alan...
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby alan... » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:04 pm

okay i hope some people are still reading this thread, i'm going to try to define them one more time for critique:

form: physical objects

feeling: painful pleasant or neutral.

perception: the six senses.

formations: the swirl of thoughts and ideas that we build, remember, create, and change.

consciousness: knowing, the light behind the projector.


when i look deeply i see all of the aggregates as utterly impermanent. no question at all, it's obvious. i think this is very in line with what everyone and the suttas say.

the only thing is i see a consciousness that never changes except when sleeping or dying. however this consciousness has no characteristics that are personal so it is not self. it is no different than a flame, it's certainly an action, but not a personal or permanent one. i have trouble seeing it as constantly changing as it is so impersonal! like a star, it certainly has a beginning and an end, you can't see them for half the day and they twinkle, but for the most part they are always there and yet they are still totally impermanent.

i suppose it goes from very wakeful to sleepy pretty frequently, i just feel like the raw consciousness is almost totally consistent. again though, i in no way am saying it is permanent, just that i have trouble seeing it as a constantly changing thing.

can anyone enlighten me? i mean in the sense of teaching me a new concept, not "enlighten me" as in get me to nibbana. although if anyone could do that it would be appreciated as well.

perhaps i should also ask: if one were to be adept at seeing consciousness as not self that should allow one to work back up the ladder in the opposite direction right? as opposed to the other way around, starting with form or trying to apprehend them all at once.

ugh, i think i'm going to have to dust off my "comprehensive manual of abhidhamma" and read it... it's just not as fun as the suttas...

anyone know if this would answer my questions? i've heard the abhidhamma is not totally in line with the suttas though...

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reflection
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby reflection » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:18 pm

Hi Alan,

Don't dust of your books, you won't find answers there. Books are about dhamma, they are not Dhamma themselves. And you want to see Dhamma. So instead, dust of your meditation cushion. Go sit down, see what the mind does and relax.

To see that consciousness is inconstant is one of the hardest things, but you can get a little flavor once external senses start to shut down one by one. Eye and nose consciousness (sight and smell) go first. Sounds and the body consciousness can also fade away. Only mind consciousness will be left and it will be silent and focused. Because that awareness is the only thing left, it becomes takes itself as object. For the first time, you are looking really at what's beneath all the other stuff that has occupied the rest of your life. By looking deeper and deeper, you may see that this mind is also empty... And then you come to some understanding through your own insight, which you won't ever find in any book, because you know it can't be put into words.

And take it easy. Be content with what you already know and what you already have. :)

With metta,
Reflection

SamKR
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby SamKR » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:15 am


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polarbear101
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby polarbear101 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:54 am

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

SamKR
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby SamKR » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:04 am

Last edited by SamKR on Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

SamKR
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby SamKR » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:20 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:02 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

alan...
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby alan... » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:26 am


alan...
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby alan... » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:28 am


alan...
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby alan... » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:31 am


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reflection
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby reflection » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:01 am

And so, what's the problem? ;) Wanting your meditation to be different than it is, is just adding a new desire, isn't it?
It takes letting go to go deeper. That also includes letting go of ideas what you think you are supposed to experience.

alan...
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby alan... » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:55 pm


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Spiny Norman
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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:30 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Re: contemplating the aggregates

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:35 am



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