The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
SarathW
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The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby SarathW » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:36 am

Page 72 of attached says:

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf


Onthe attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.

Question: If breathing ceases, the person will not have oxygen. How does a person live without oxygen?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

santa100
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby santa100 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:08 am


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James the Giant
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby James the Giant » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:01 am

There have been cases of people not breathing for up to an hour, when trapped under ice, and they have fully recovered.
Maybe deep meditation does the same.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.

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polarbear101
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby polarbear101 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:20 am

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:04 pm

I think it's a metabolism thing. IIRC, the metabolism in deep meditation drops about 50% while in sleep it's just 15%. Plus, you continue to breathe through the pores.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

matais
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby matais » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:19 pm

Throughout the first four jhanas the perception of breath (or body, depending on ones meditation subject) remains in various degrees of subtlety. Since the fifth jhana is formless, this'd be the first jhana where breath, along with the rest of the body, becomes unnoticable. Regardless of what the body is doing, whether it's breathing deep, shallow, slow, rapid, at this point the breath ceases to exist for the meditator, along with all other forms.

That's how I'd interpret the quote, but I'm by no means an abhidhamma scholar.

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Spiny Norman
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby Spiny Norman » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:31 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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IanAnd
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby IanAnd » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:46 pm

"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

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polarbear101
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby polarbear101 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:51 pm

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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daverupa
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby daverupa » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:17 pm


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Modus.Ponens
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:45 pm

Wow!My teacher was wrong about that! Not only her, but, as it seems, a lot of people!
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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polarbear101
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby polarbear101 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:01 pm

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

santa100
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby santa100 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:36 pm


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Modus.Ponens
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:07 pm

He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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IanAnd
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby IanAnd » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:20 am

Last edited by IanAnd on Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

SarathW
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby SarathW » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:23 am

I was watching that Carl Sagan’s video on Evolution. See attached:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl89HIJ6HDo

It appears that the first cell created was not breathing!
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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anjali
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby anjali » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:52 am


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Mr Man
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby Mr Man » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:44 am


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Spiny Norman
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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby Spiny Norman » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:05 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Re: The attainment of the fifth Jhàna breathing ceases.How?

Postby Coyote » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:18 am

"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26


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