most distilled dhamma?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Mr Man
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Re: most distilled dhamma?

Post by Mr Man »

"Then, Bāhiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."

Bāhiya Sutta
Ud 1.10
PTS: Ud 6
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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DharmaDude
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Re: most distilled dhamma?

Post by DharmaDude »

alan... wrote:as small as you can get it but have it still be a complete path that someone could follow without anything else.
"The heart of the path is quite easy. There’s no need to explain anything at length. Let go of love and hate and let things be. That’s all that I do in my own practice". ~ Ajahn Chah
alan...
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Re: most distilled dhamma?

Post by alan... »

tiltbillings wrote:
alan... wrote:as small as you can get it but have it still be a complete path that someone could follow without anything else.

the theravada dhamma is IMMENSE, i'm constantly trying to whittle it down to something that i can wrap my head around.

a book?

a practice?

a certain school?
Theravada is immense, though not as immense as some other schools. Quite frankly, you can make this as complicated or as simple as you want. To re-word what you are asking: What is the bare minimum one needs to know and needs to do? (But even that will take work.)
yes exactly that.
alan...
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Re: most distilled dhamma?

Post by alan... »

David N. Snyder wrote:
alan... wrote: a book?
Anguttara Nikaya
a practice?
Samatha-Vipassana
a certain school?
Theravada.
anguttara? i would have guessed samyutta. i suppose both are jam packed with small, easily digested wisdom. what makes you pick anguttara over samyutta out of curiosity?
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DNS
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Re: most distilled dhamma?

Post by DNS »

alan... wrote: anguttara? i would have guessed samyutta. i suppose both are jam packed with small, easily digested wisdom. what makes you pick anguttara over samyutta out of curiosity?
Anguttara Nikaya rules! You mean you haven't read my book?? :tongue: (see link below in my signature)

The Anguttara Nikaya has the most suttas directed toward lay people than any other Nikaya. It lists the Dhamma teachings by numbers and presents it in a nice summary format. It also has teachings not found in other Nikayas, i.e., there is not so much of the repetition found in other Nikayas.

Here are some quick reference highlights:

http://thedhamma.com/anguttaranikaya.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Justsit
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Re: most distilled dhamma?

Post by Justsit »

Sabba papassa akaranam,
kusalassa upasampada
sacittapariyodapanam:
etam Buddhanusasanam


To avoid evil,
To do good,
To purify the mind,
This is the advice of all the Buddhas.

source
alan...
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Re: most distilled dhamma?

Post by alan... »

David N. Snyder wrote:
alan... wrote: anguttara? i would have guessed samyutta. i suppose both are jam packed with small, easily digested wisdom. what makes you pick anguttara over samyutta out of curiosity?
Anguttara Nikaya rules! You mean you haven't read my book?? :tongue: (see link below in my signature)

The Anguttara Nikaya has the most suttas directed toward lay people than any other Nikaya. It lists the Dhamma teachings by numbers and presents it in a nice summary format. It also has teachings not found in other Nikayas, i.e., there is not so much of the repetition found in other Nikayas.

Here are some quick reference highlights:

http://thedhamma.com/anguttaranikaya.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
sweet thank you! i have read a ton of the samyutta and a fair share of the anguttara,i guess i need to read more anguttara! i almost bought one of your books long ago that lists the buddhas lists or something before i knew who you were! now that i matched up two and two the book is like 400 dollars or something since it's not available or whatever. i wish i had bought it back then when it was cheap!
alan...
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Re: most distilled dhamma?

Post by alan... »

lots of good answers guys but my OP was asking
alan... wrote:as small as you can get it but have it still be a complete path that someone could follow without anything else.
i'm looking for something that is condensed AND complete. just a phrase or a single very short sutta is not enough for someone to use alone with no other help or knowledge. like perhaps a single book on buddhism or something. a good example is some stuff by or compilations of mahasi sayadaw's stuff. if you took all of his writings and others who wrote under him and put it in one big book it would be a complete path but very condensed compared to the tipitaka. that's just an example, and may not even be a good or accurate one but it's the general idea. or some may say a certain long sutta may be the complete training, such as "the expanding decades" or another like that, and again, that sutta is just an example and probably a bad one, just a general idea. something that is VERY inclusive and could theoretically lead one from step one to the end.

also david's suggestion of the anguttara nikaya is a perfect example of what i'm talking about.

to those of you who posted single suttas or small amounts of text, if you really think these could be complete stand alone trainings that would need nothing else to guide someone could you elaborate how?
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SDC
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Re: most distilled dhamma?

Post by SDC »

The amount that one needs to hear/read in order to develop to a high level depends on their ability to understand the dhamma. For some it may take one sentence for others it may take a million. Actually I recall a sutta where it a 9 year old boy attained arahantship as soon a razor blade hit his head for shaving when he ordained.

People do not know your ability, therefore it is difficult for them to give you the amount that you would need in order to develop.

Read the suttas. Listen to lectures. See what resonates. Follow what makes the most sense. See how it begins to have an influence on your experience. If you put your time in, your practice will naturally become very, very organized and you'll finally feel like everything is moving in one direction rather than a million.

That will condense the chaos. Just my 2 pennies.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
alan...
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Re: most distilled dhamma?

Post by alan... »

SDC wrote:The amount that one needs to hear/read in order to develop to a high level depends on their ability to understand the dhamma. For some it may take one sentence for others it may take a million. Actually I recall a sutta where it a 9 year old boy attained arahantship as soon a razor blade hit his head for shaving when he ordained.

People do not know your ability, therefore it is difficult for them to give you the amount that you would need in order to develop.

Read the suttas. Listen to lectures. See what resonates. Follow what makes the most sense. See how it begins to have an influence on your experience. If you put your time in, your practice will naturally become very, very organized and you'll finally feel like everything is moving in one direction rather than a million.

That will condense the chaos. Just my 2 pennies.


i see no reason why one could not condense things. if nothing else seems plausible to you then what about simply taking all the duplicate suttas out of the tipitaka? this is a condensation, albeit fairly small, but nonetheless would be what i'm talking about and it would still be a complete exposition of the dhamma. that's a broad example. they are out there. i'm quite certain there are things that are designed to be enough for just about anybody and are smaller than the entire tipitaka.
Last edited by alan... on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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fig tree
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Re: most distilled dhamma?

Post by fig tree »

I don't know what counts as the most distilled, but if you search http://www.accesstoinsight.org for "brief instruction" or "dhamma in brief" you can find a lot of suttas in which a monk or nun gets a nice epitome of the dhamma, presumably tailored to their own needs. For example:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Fig Tree
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Polar Bear
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Re: most distilled dhamma?

Post by Polar Bear »

fig tree wrote:I don't know what counts as the most distilled, but if you search http://www.accesstoinsight.org for "brief instruction" or "dhamma in brief" you can find a lot of suttas in which a monk or nun gets a nice epitome of the dhamma, presumably tailored to their own needs. For example:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Fig Tree
This is actually a great idea.

:thumbsup:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/search_r ... a+in+brief" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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SDC
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Re: most distilled dhamma?

Post by SDC »

alan... wrote:i see no reason why one could not condense things.
I never said you shouldn't. However...

You've said in other threads that the body of literature is sort of overwhelming, correct? I do not want you to feel that way about it, because I know it can be a discouraging feeling. What I want you to see, is that is you dive in, immerse yourself in it, let it become your life, then it organizes itself.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
alan...
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Re: most distilled dhamma?

Post by alan... »

SDC wrote:
alan... wrote:i see no reason why one could not condense things.
I never said you shouldn't. However...

You've said in other threads that the body of literature is sort of overwhelming, correct? I do not want you to feel that way about it, because I know it can be a discouraging feeling. What I want you to see, is that is you dive in, immerse yourself in it, let it become your life, then it organizes itself.
gotcha, thanks!
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