Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby Sam Vara » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:30 am

Let's send the man a little good will, whatever we think of his organisations and beliefs. He is 85, and has admitted to being mentally and physically too frail to do what he presumably thinks is the most important task in the world.
Fully worn out is this body, a nest of disease, and fragile. This foul mass breaks up, for death is the end of life.

Something very similar will come to all of us.
User avatar
Sam Vara
 
Posts: 1059
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby Jay1 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:41 pm

LonesomeYogurt wrote:
Jay1 wrote:The website is biased.

The website doesn't exist to give a comprehensive overview of all events in the Bible. It simply showcases, quite effectively, I might add, the depths of cruelty to which Jehovah sinks to on multiple occasions. No amount of positives on the other side could give pardon.


It showcases a fundamental misunderstanding of the Christian faith. It doesn't expose evil acts of God because it does not understand scripture.
User avatar
Jay1
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:37 pm

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby beeblebrox » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:15 pm

Sam Vara wrote:Let's send the man a little good will, whatever we think of his organisations and beliefs. He is 85, and has admitted to being mentally and physically too frail to do what he presumably thinks is the most important task in the world.
Fully worn out is this body, a nest of disease, and fragile. This foul mass breaks up, for death is the end of life.

Something very similar will come to all of us.


Hi Sam,

Thank you for making this post.

:anjali:

Kim O'Hara wrote:
LonesomeYogurt wrote:The website doesn't exist to give a comprehensive overview of all events in the Bible. It simply showcases, quite effectively, I might add, the depths of cruelty to which Jehovah sinks to on multiple occasions. No amount of positives on the other side could give pardon.

Just how can a non-existent disembodied intelligence be cruel?


Exactly... I think this sort of thing is a bit unfortunate. It's a bizarre world that we live in.

:anjali:
User avatar
beeblebrox
 
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby Coyote » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:23 pm

Personally I find the history of the modern Catholic church fascinating an await to see which direction the next pope takes the church. The man was a great scholar and theologian (so I'm told) so it will be interesting to see where his influence takes Catholic doctrine and practice. I think we live in "interesting times" with regards to traditional ecclesiastical Christianity. Just from my nerdy historian point of view it has been really interesting watching from the sidelines to see how he has influenced the church and how he contended with his predecessors legacy, not to mention the various scandals ect. It's a pity this history has to happen in the real world though, it's easy to forget that.
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26
Coyote
 
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:42 pm
Location: Wales - UK

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby Jason » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:09 am

Personally, I can't say that I'm sad to the pontiff — who, among other things, called Buddhism "self-indulgent eroticism" and thought it was OK to say that condoms increase the problem of AIDS in a country where 22.5 million people are living with HIV — go. Not really a huge fan, although I'm sad to see that it's because his health is declining.

    Like massive boulders,
    mountains pressing against the sky,
    moving in from all sides,
    crushing the four directions,
    so aging and death
    come rolling over living beings:
    noble warriors, brahmans, merchants,
    workers, outcastes, & scavengers.
    They spare nothing.
    They trample everything.
    - SN 3.25
Last edited by Jason on Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).

leaves in the hand (Buddhist-related blog)
leaves in the forest (non-Buddhist related blog)
User avatar
Jason
 
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:09 am
Location: Earth

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby ground » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:38 am

Lucky Pope, he is able to let go being aware that capacities are limited in the sphere of aging and death. Wisdom is independent of religion. :sage:
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby alan » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:08 am

In a more rational world, the Pope would be a subject of mockery.
Take over the Vatican, sell it's assets, and spread that money to all the poor families in the third world who have suffered from the idiotic policy that bans contraception. That's what we should do.
alan
 
Posts: 2568
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:13 am

    Buddhism

    Though his advent was congratulated by Buddhist leaders around the world, [3][4] critics remembered that in March 1997 Cardinal Ratzinger predicted that Buddhism would, over the coming century, replace Marxism as the main "enemy" of the Catholic Church. Some also criticized him for calling Buddhism an "autoerotic spirituality" that offered "transcendence without imposing concrete religious obligations", though that might be a mistranslation from the French auto-erotisme, which more properly translates to self-absorption, or narcissism.[37][38] Also the quote did not address Buddhism as such, but rather about how Buddhism "appears" to those Europeans who are using it to obtain some type of self-satisfying spiritual experience.[39]
    -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology_o ... nedict_XVI
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19785
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby jonno » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:52 am

Hi all.I've no intention to enter into any contraversary , or to criticise anyone. I simply feel that as Buddhists we should practice forgiveness understanding and compassion for all beings. Namaste Jonno
jonno
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:34 pm

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby James the Giant » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:11 am

Waa-hee!
In 1990 Ratzinger commented on the Galileo affair, and quoted philosopher Paul Feyerabend as saying that the Church's verdict against Galileo had been "rational and just".


The Pope about Harry Potter books:
"these are subtle seductions which act imperceptibly and thereby deeply, and dissolve Christianity in the soul before it can grow properly."


Distributing condoms to help prevent HIV:
"would result in at least the facilitation of evil".


About Gay and Lesbian people adopting children:
"Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such unions would actually mean doing violence to these children."


On LGBT rights:
"The Archdiocese should withdraw all support from any group, which does not unequivocally accept the teaching of the Magisterium concerning the intrinsic evil of homosexual activity."

And
"although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder."
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
User avatar
James the Giant
 
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:41 am

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:00 pm

jonno wrote:Hi all.I've no intention to enter into any contraversary , or to criticise anyone. I simply feel that as Buddhists we should practice forgiveness understanding and compassion for all beings. Namaste Jonno
One can forgive him, but that does not mean that one cannot also reasonably critique some very atavistic teachings, pronouncement and such.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19785
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby GraemeR » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:03 pm

Well he was no friend of Buddhism and I hope his successor may be more sensitive.

" Perhaps one of his most worrying comments was regarding Buddhism, which he called an "autoerotic spirituality" that seeks "transcendence without imposing concrete religious obligations." He also made the point that, by the year 2000, Buddhism would replace Marxism as the church's biggest foe. (See National Catholic Reporter Vol. 35, No. 17, Feb. 27, 1999). Perhaps he was not aware that Marxism had all but disappeared by 1990. He has also made other blunders such as quoting a former Byzantine monarch's comment regarding Islam at a particularly insensitive time."

http://cathar-martyr.tripod.com/inquisition.html

Graham
User avatar
GraemeR
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:20 am
Location: Thailand

Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby GraemeR » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:39 am

Dear all

I haven't seen positive confirmation of this, but it's circulating quite widely:

http://itccs.org/

An arrest warrant may have precipitated his resignation

With Metta

Graham
User avatar
GraemeR
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:20 am
Location: Thailand

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby Buckwheat » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:23 pm

:jumping:
Kim O'Hara wrote:
LonesomeYogurt wrote:
Jay1 wrote:The website is biased.

The website doesn't exist to give a comprehensive overview of all events in the Bible. It simply showcases, quite effectively, I might add, the depths of cruelty to which Jehovah sinks to on multiple occasions. No amount of positives on the other side could give pardon.

Just how can a non-existent disembodied intelligence be cruel?
:shrug:
Kim

:clap:
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
Buckwheat
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:39 am
Location: California USA

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby Buckwheat » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:40 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
    Buddhism

    Though his advent was congratulated by Buddhist leaders around the world, [3][4] critics remembered that in March 1997 Cardinal Ratzinger predicted that Buddhism would, over the coming century, replace Marxism as the main "enemy" of the Catholic Church. Some also criticized him for calling Buddhism an "autoerotic spirituality" that offered "transcendence without imposing concrete religious obligations", though that might be a mistranslation from the French auto-erotisme, which more properly translates to self-absorption, or narcissism.[37][38] Also the quote did not address Buddhism as such, but rather about how Buddhism "appears" to those Europeans who are using it to obtain some type of self-satisfying spiritual experience.[39]
    -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology_o ... nedict_XVI


So, he basically said the watered down Buddhism taught in many western dharma centers is selfish feel-good-ism? Ain't there some truth to that?
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
Buckwheat
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:39 am
Location: California USA

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:17 pm

Buckwheat wrote:
So, he basically said the watered down Buddhism taught in many western dharma centers is selfish feel-good-ism? Ain't there some truth to that?
Which Dhamma centers would those be? And, no, he did not specify "watered down Buddhism taught in many western dharma centers."
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19785
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby GraemeR » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 am

tiltbillings wrote:Which Dhamma centers would those be? And, no, he did not specify "watered down Buddhism taught in many western dharma centers."


I went to excellent Buddhist Centres in Britain, they are much better than most I have seen here in Thailand, where good Wats seem to be the exception, rather than the rule. Buddhism here can be watered down with Hinduism, Taoism animism etc in may temples.

In my view the Pope just loves to hate - Buddhists, Muslims, anyone who doesn't follow his dogma. To me his use of terms like 'Enemy' is simply awful.

With Metta

Graham
User avatar
GraemeR
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:20 am
Location: Thailand

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby Buckwheat » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:13 am

tiltbillings wrote:
    Buddhism

    Though his advent was congratulated by Buddhist leaders around the world, [3][4] critics remembered that in March 1997 Cardinal Ratzinger predicted that Buddhism would, over the coming century, replace Marxism as the main "enemy" of the Catholic Church. Some also criticized him for calling Buddhism an "autoerotic spirituality" that offered "transcendence without imposing concrete religious obligations", though that might be a mistranslation from the French auto-erotisme, which more properly translates to self-absorption, or narcissism.[37][38] Also the quote did not address Buddhism as such, but rather about how Buddhism "appears" to those Europeans who are using it to obtain some type of self-satisfying spiritual experience.[39]
    -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology_o ... nedict_XVI


If the Pope was referring to Buddhism in general, he was either neglecting Kamma or ignorant of the teaching. However, the framework around this quote indicates he is referring to what is seen in European dharma circles. Due to my ignorance, I will have to defer to others regarding the respectability of European dharma centers. What I have seen is that in California and Utah several Mahayana dharma centers have a pretty weak respect for the workings of kamma, which is what drove me to Theravada in the first place. (There are also some Mahayana centers which command my utmost respect, but I was already "converted" to Theravada.)

FYI - I don't like the Pope. I am kind of glad he is stepping down, although saddened as I realize they will probably just select another Pope I don't like. :toilet:
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
Buckwheat
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:39 am
Location: California USA

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:17 am

Buckwheat wrote:... I realize they will probably just select another Pope I don't like. :toilet:

From http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/sensible-move-by-benedict/story-e6frg7ko-1226578731927:
However, because Benedict has appointed so many of the cardinals who will vote for his successor, it's unlikely the new pope is going to be any kind of ecclesiastical revolutionary.


:thinking:
Kim
User avatar
Kim OHara
 
Posts: 3138
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Postby Kusala » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:42 pm

Buckwheat wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
    Buddhism

    Though his advent was congratulated by Buddhist leaders around the world, [3][4] critics remembered that in March 1997 Cardinal Ratzinger predicted that Buddhism would, over the coming century, replace Marxism as the main "enemy" of the Catholic Church. Some also criticized him for calling Buddhism an "autoerotic spirituality" that offered "transcendence without imposing concrete religious obligations", though that might be a mistranslation from the French auto-erotisme, which more properly translates to self-absorption, or narcissism.[37][38] Also the quote did not address Buddhism as such, but rather about how Buddhism "appears" to those Europeans who are using it to obtain some type of self-satisfying spiritual experience.[39]
    -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology_o ... nedict_XVI


If the Pope was referring to Buddhism in general, he was either neglecting Kamma or ignorant of the teaching. However, the framework around this quote indicates he is referring to what is seen in European dharma circles. Due to my ignorance, I will have to defer to others regarding the respectability of European dharma centers. What I have seen is that in California and Utah several Mahayana dharma centers have a pretty weak respect for the workings of kamma, which is what drove me to Theravada in the first place. (There are also some Mahayana centers which command my utmost respect, but I was already "converted" to Theravada.)

FYI - I don't like the Pope. I am kind of glad he is stepping down, although saddened as I realize they will probably just select another Pope I don't like. :toilet:


Catholic encyclopedia on Buddhism... http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03028b.htm

"The fundamental tenets of Buddhism are marked by grave defects that not only betray its inadequacy to become a religion of enlightened humanity, but also bring into bold relief its inferiority to the religion of Jesus Christ. In the first place, the very foundation on which Buddhism rests—the doctrine of karma with its implied transmigrations—is gratuitous and false..."

"Another fatal defect of Buddhism is its false pessimism. A strong and healthy mind revolts against the morbid view that life is not worth living, that every form of conscious existence is an evil. Buddhism stands condemned by the voice of nature the dominant tone of which is hope and joy. It is a protest against nature for possessing the perfection of rational life. The highest ambition of Buddhism is to destroy that perfection by bringing all living beings to the unconscious repose of Nirvana. Buddhism is thus guilty of a capital crime against nature, and in consequence does injustice to the individual..."

"Buddhism has accomplished but little for the uplifting of humanity in comparison with Christianity. One of its most attractive features, which, unfortunately, has become wellnigh obsolete, was its practice of benevolence towards the sick and needy. Between Buddhists and Brahmins there was a commendable rivalry in maintaining dispensaries of food and medicine. But this charity did not, like the Christian form, extend to the prolonged nursing of unfortunates stricken with contagious and incurable diseases, to the protection of foundlings, to the bringing up of orphans, to the rescue of fallen women, to the care of the aged and insane. Asylums and hospitals in this sense are unknown to Buddhism..."
Image

Homage to the Buddha
Thus indeed, is that Blessed One: He is the Holy One, fully enlightened, endowed with clear vision and virtuous conduct, sublime, the Knower of the worlds, the incomparable leader of men to be tamed, the teacher of gods and men, enlightened and blessed.

Homage to the Teachings
The Dhamma of the Blessed One is perfectly expounded; to be seen here and now; not delayed in
time; inviting one to come and see; onward leading (to Nibbana); to be known by the wise, each for himself.
User avatar
Kusala
 
Posts: 466
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:02 am

PreviousNext

Return to Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 6 guests