Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

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tiltbillings
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Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Post by tiltbillings »

jonno wrote:Hi all.I've no intention to enter into any contraversary , or to criticise anyone. I simply feel that as Buddhists we should practice forgiveness understanding and compassion for all beings. Namaste Jonno
One can forgive him, but that does not mean that one cannot also reasonably critique some very atavistic teachings, pronouncement and such.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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GraemeR
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Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Post by GraemeR »

Well he was no friend of Buddhism and I hope his successor may be more sensitive.

" Perhaps one of his most worrying comments was regarding Buddhism, which he called an "autoerotic spirituality" that seeks "transcendence without imposing concrete religious obligations." He also made the point that, by the year 2000, Buddhism would replace Marxism as the church's biggest foe. (See National Catholic Reporter Vol. 35, No. 17, Feb. 27, 1999). Perhaps he was not aware that Marxism had all but disappeared by 1990. He has also made other blunders such as quoting a former Byzantine monarch's comment regarding Islam at a particularly insensitive time."

http://cathar-martyr.tripod.com/inquisition.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Graham
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GraemeR
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Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Post by GraemeR »

Dear all

I haven't seen positive confirmation of this, but it's circulating quite widely:

http://itccs.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An arrest warrant may have precipitated his resignation

With Metta

Graham
Buckwheat
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Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Post by Buckwheat »

:jumping:
Kim O'Hara wrote:
LonesomeYogurt wrote:
Jay1 wrote:The website is biased.
The website doesn't exist to give a comprehensive overview of all events in the Bible. It simply showcases, quite effectively, I might add, the depths of cruelty to which Jehovah sinks to on multiple occasions. No amount of positives on the other side could give pardon.
Just how can a non-existent disembodied intelligence be cruel?
:shrug:
Kim
:clap:
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
Buckwheat
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Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Post by Buckwheat »

tiltbillings wrote:
  • Buddhism

    Though his advent was congratulated by Buddhist leaders around the world, [3][4] critics remembered that in March 1997 Cardinal Ratzinger predicted that Buddhism would, over the coming century, replace Marxism as the main "enemy" of the Catholic Church. Some also criticized him for calling Buddhism an "autoerotic spirituality" that offered "transcendence without imposing concrete religious obligations", though that might be a mistranslation from the French auto-erotisme, which more properly translates to self-absorption, or narcissism.[37][38] Also the quote did not address Buddhism as such, but rather about how Buddhism "appears" to those Europeans who are using it to obtain some type of self-satisfying spiritual experience.[39]
    -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology_o ... nedict_XVI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So, he basically said the watered down Buddhism taught in many western dharma centers is selfish feel-good-ism? Ain't there some truth to that?
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Post by tiltbillings »

Buckwheat wrote:
So, he basically said the watered down Buddhism taught in many western dharma centers is selfish feel-good-ism? Ain't there some truth to that?
Which Dhamma centers would those be? And, no, he did not specify "watered down Buddhism taught in many western dharma centers."
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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GraemeR
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Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Post by GraemeR »

tiltbillings wrote:Which Dhamma centers would those be? And, no, he did not specify "watered down Buddhism taught in many western dharma centers."
I went to excellent Buddhist Centres in Britain, they are much better than most I have seen here in Thailand, where good Wats seem to be the exception, rather than the rule. Buddhism here can be watered down with Hinduism, Taoism animism etc in may temples.

In my view the Pope just loves to hate - Buddhists, Muslims, anyone who doesn't follow his dogma. To me his use of terms like 'Enemy' is simply awful.

With Metta

Graham
Buckwheat
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Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Post by Buckwheat »

tiltbillings wrote:
  • Buddhism

    Though his advent was congratulated by Buddhist leaders around the world, [3][4] critics remembered that in March 1997 Cardinal Ratzinger predicted that Buddhism would, over the coming century, replace Marxism as the main "enemy" of the Catholic Church. Some also criticized him for calling Buddhism an "autoerotic spirituality" that offered "transcendence without imposing concrete religious obligations", though that might be a mistranslation from the French auto-erotisme, which more properly translates to self-absorption, or narcissism.[37][38] Also the quote did not address Buddhism as such, but rather about how Buddhism "appears" to those Europeans who are using it to obtain some type of self-satisfying spiritual experience.[39]
    -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology_o ... nedict_XVI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If the Pope was referring to Buddhism in general, he was either neglecting Kamma or ignorant of the teaching. However, the framework around this quote indicates he is referring to what is seen in European dharma circles. Due to my ignorance, I will have to defer to others regarding the respectability of European dharma centers. What I have seen is that in California and Utah several Mahayana dharma centers have a pretty weak respect for the workings of kamma, which is what drove me to Theravada in the first place. (There are also some Mahayana centers which command my utmost respect, but I was already "converted" to Theravada.)

FYI - I don't like the Pope. I am kind of glad he is stepping down, although saddened as I realize they will probably just select another Pope I don't like. :toilet:
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
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Kim OHara
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Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

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Buckwheat wrote:... I realize they will probably just select another Pope I don't like. :toilet:
From http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion ... 6578731927:
However, because Benedict has appointed so many of the cardinals who will vote for his successor, it's unlikely the new pope is going to be any kind of ecclesiastical revolutionary.
:thinking:
Kim
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Kusala
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Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Post by Kusala »

Buckwheat wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
  • Buddhism

    Though his advent was congratulated by Buddhist leaders around the world, [3][4] critics remembered that in March 1997 Cardinal Ratzinger predicted that Buddhism would, over the coming century, replace Marxism as the main "enemy" of the Catholic Church. Some also criticized him for calling Buddhism an "autoerotic spirituality" that offered "transcendence without imposing concrete religious obligations", though that might be a mistranslation from the French auto-erotisme, which more properly translates to self-absorption, or narcissism.[37][38] Also the quote did not address Buddhism as such, but rather about how Buddhism "appears" to those Europeans who are using it to obtain some type of self-satisfying spiritual experience.[39]
    -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology_o ... nedict_XVI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If the Pope was referring to Buddhism in general, he was either neglecting Kamma or ignorant of the teaching. However, the framework around this quote indicates he is referring to what is seen in European dharma circles. Due to my ignorance, I will have to defer to others regarding the respectability of European dharma centers. What I have seen is that in California and Utah several Mahayana dharma centers have a pretty weak respect for the workings of kamma, which is what drove me to Theravada in the first place. (There are also some Mahayana centers which command my utmost respect, but I was already "converted" to Theravada.)

FYI - I don't like the Pope. I am kind of glad he is stepping down, although saddened as I realize they will probably just select another Pope I don't like. :toilet:
Catholic encyclopedia on Buddhism... http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03028b.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The fundamental tenets of Buddhism are marked by grave defects that not only betray its inadequacy to become a religion of enlightened humanity, but also bring into bold relief its inferiority to the religion of Jesus Christ. In the first place, the very foundation on which Buddhism rests—the doctrine of karma with its implied transmigrations—is gratuitous and false..."

"Another fatal defect of Buddhism is its false pessimism. A strong and healthy mind revolts against the morbid view that life is not worth living, that every form of conscious existence is an evil. Buddhism stands condemned by the voice of nature the dominant tone of which is hope and joy. It is a protest against nature for possessing the perfection of rational life. The highest ambition of Buddhism is to destroy that perfection by bringing all living beings to the unconscious repose of Nirvana. Buddhism is thus guilty of a capital crime against nature, and in consequence does injustice to the individual..."

"Buddhism has accomplished but little for the uplifting of humanity in comparison with Christianity. One of its most attractive features, which, unfortunately, has become wellnigh obsolete, was its practice of benevolence towards the sick and needy. Between Buddhists and Brahmins there was a commendable rivalry in maintaining dispensaries of food and medicine. But this charity did not, like the Christian form, extend to the prolonged nursing of unfortunates stricken with contagious and incurable diseases, to the protection of foundlings, to the bringing up of orphans, to the rescue of fallen women, to the care of the aged and insane. Asylums and hospitals in this sense are unknown to Buddhism..."
"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
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tiltbillings
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Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Post by tiltbillings »

Kusala wrote:Catholic encyclopedia on Buddhism... http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03028b.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The fundamental tenets of Buddhism are marked by grave defects that not only betray its inadequacy to become a religion of enlightened humanity, but also bring into bold relief its inferiority to the religion of Jesus Christ. In the first place, the very foundation on which Buddhism rests—the doctrine of karma with its implied transmigrations—is gratuitous and false..."

"Another fatal defect of Buddhism is its false pessimism. A strong and healthy mind revolts against the morbid view that life is not worth living, that every form of conscious existence is an evil. Buddhism stands condemned by the voice of nature the dominant tone of which is hope and joy. It is a protest against nature for possessing the perfection of rational life. The highest ambition of Buddhism is to destroy that perfection by bringing all living beings to the unconscious repose of Nirvana. Buddhism is thus guilty of a capital crime against nature, and in consequence does injustice to the individual..."

"Buddhism has accomplished but little for the uplifting of humanity in comparison with Christianity. One of its most attractive features, which, unfortunately, has become wellnigh obsolete, was its practice of benevolence towards the sick and needy. Between Buddhists and Brahmins there was a commendable rivalry in maintaining dispensaries of food and medicine. But this charity did not, like the Christian form, extend to the prolonged nursing of unfortunates stricken with contagious and incurable diseases, to the protection of foundlings, to the bringing up of orphans, to the rescue of fallen women, to the care of the aged and insane. Asylums and hospitals in this sense are unknown to Buddhism..."
I wonder what Western Dharma center is being referred to here?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Coyote
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Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

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tiltbillings wrote:I wonder what Western Dharma center is being referred to here?
Catholic Encyclopaedia was written nearly 100 years ago and not by Pope Benedict.

Nevertheless, this kind of misunderstanding or perspective is common in Catholicism. For example:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/ponti ... ge_en.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are a few garbled perspectives on Buddhism there, but it's more talking about Catholics taking up non-catholic spirituality, something seen as a big problem in modern catholic circles by Catholics, and something I understand PB and his predecessor wanted to address. It's seen as something spiritually dangerous for those who are baptised to engage in.

I'd say this kind of thinking is common and perhaps even expected from a religion that sees God's creation as ultimately good, and to be restored to it's original perfection after the last judgement. Denial of that seen is pessimistic and hopeless, and even dangerous.
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26
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tiltbillings
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Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

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Coyote wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:I wonder what Western Dharma center is being referred to here?
Catholic Encyclopaedia was written nearly 100 years ago and not by Pope Benedict.
I know. I was being waggish, if not snarkish.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Kim OHara
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Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Post by Kim OHara »

tiltbillings wrote:
Coyote wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:I wonder what Western Dharma center is being referred to here?
Catholic Encyclopaedia was written nearly 100 years ago and not by Pope Benedict.
I know. I was being waggish, if not snarkish.
Quite possibly both.

:popcorn:
Kim
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tiltbillings
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Re: Pope Benedict XVI Says He Will Resign

Post by tiltbillings »

Kim O'Hara wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:know. I was being waggish, if not snarkish.
Quite possibly both.

:popcorn:
Kim
Not to mention ironic and sarcastic.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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