I finally paid off my debts...

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.

I finally paid off my debts...

Postby James the Giant » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:39 am

Ten years after I borrowed the money, I have finally paid off my student loan and credit cards.
Woohoo!
It's an excellent feeling, being free of that damned obligation, that albatross.
And now I am free to ordain, wonderful!

Now I have a choice:
EITHER:
Immediately go to Bodhivana Monastery near Melbourne and become an anagarika there, or perhaps here in Perth at Bodhinyana.

OR:
Save for six more months, and then go visit Thailand, stay at Wat Pa Nanachat for a few months, and visit Sri Lanka, to get a taste of life in a Buddhist country.
Then find a good monastery, probably back here in Australia. (or Wat Pa Nanachat if I like that.)


I am inclined towards the first option, saving 6 months more and visiting Thailand. But I guess I will visit or live there for some time anyway, as a bhikkhu.

I have 4 or 5 thousand dollars now, which would be more than enough to get me through an anagarika year in Australia, in case I needed to see a doctor or dentist or visit home just before I became a novice.

Hmm choices, choices.
Your thoughts?
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:49 am

I would advise you to ordain as fast as you can - it's not hard to get to Thailand or any other monastery once you're firmly established in the robes. Waiting a while may lead to new complications, unforeseen problems, a change of heart, etc.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby James the Giant » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:05 am

LonesomeYogurt wrote:I would advise you to ordain as fast as you can - it's not hard to get to Thailand or any other monastery once you're firmly established in the robes. Waiting a while may lead to new complications, unforeseen problems, a change of heart, etc.

Thanks LonesomeYogurt, yes, a bhikkhu I know well also advised me the same thing, for the same reasons you mention. Hmmm...
I get excited butterflies-in-my-stomach sensations when I think about doing that straight away. In a good way, not a scary way.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:24 am

Great news James!

As LY says, my impression is that travel later should not be a problem if you are established in a reputable monastery.

Best Wishes,
:anjali:
Mike
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:24 pm

Congratulations!! I'm happy for you! :)

I have the same opinion as others. Ordain as soon as possible. Otherwise more obstacles could arise. There's a saying here in Portugal: "what is good is enemy of what is perfect.", meaning that if you look for an ideal situation you'll end up not even geting a good situation. I don't know if your ideal was to see what it's like to live in a buddhist country, or Wat Pa Nanachat, but it's preferable to opt for a good situation, imo. As others have said, you'll have plenty of oportunities to visit Thailand once you're in robes.

Good luck! Keep us updated. :)
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:25 pm

Anumodana! Get thee to a monastery! This is an excellent, excellent opportunity! If I were you I would go forth ASAP! Be well and keep us psoted! :anjali:
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby reflection » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:04 pm

Congratulations!! And so did I! Just have to transfer the last bucks, and have them notice. ;) I'll visit a monastery soon for 6 weeks. At times I've been sure about ordaining, at times I was not. Right now I'm a bit in between, so I'll see what the visit brings.

I've made it so I got some spare money which could take me virtually anywhere. However, I can spend a lot of money and time finding a suitable monastery, while eventually peace is to be found inside myself. So I'll visit some monasteries closer by, in the UK, at least to start off with. Perhaps later, if things go well, I'll fly to Asia or somewhere where I find a suitable teacher. Problem would be the multiple trips back and forth, because not everywhere you can just walk in and ordain. Also being far away from my parents won't make them too happy. Oh well, I'll see. I'm already very happy to have the opportunity for a visit close by.

Wish you well!
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby James the Giant » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:22 pm

Gosh, that's pretty unanimous. Hmm, I'll let that sink in over the coming week.
Thanks for your thoughts, people.
:anjali:
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby reflection » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:30 pm

You're welcome. Always good to meet people with similar intentions - even online. Hope your intentions become reality. :smile: But I disagree with people who say you should ordain as soon as possible. In a monastery, I think you can train just as well with a robe as without. Just take some time to see if it really feels right and if you have found the right place. No need to rush to make your lay life just a few months shorter. Monks suffer as well..
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:28 pm

reflection wrote:You're welcome. Always good to meet people with similar intentions - even online. Hope your intentions become reality. :smile: But I disagree with people who say you should ordain as soon as possible. In a monastery, I think you can train just as well with a robe as without. Just take some time to see if it really feels right and if you have found the right place. No need to rush to make your lay life just a few months shorter. Monks suffer as well..

Oh, I totally agree - don't rush into ordaining James! Just get to the monastery.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:13 am

Congratulations on paying off the debts!

Is it that easy to travel after you have ordained? I would think a monk would need permission of the abbot, possibly Board of directors, and then the funds? Monks are not supposed to have bank accounts and funds, although I know several still do have these.

Everyone is different, but if it were me, I would want to make sure and get the lifetime-one-time pilgrimage thing done before ordaining, just in case the monastery did not allow a trip there after ordaining.
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby Kusala » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:06 am

Congratulations!

"And what is the bliss of debtlessness? There is the case where the son of a good family owes no debt, great or small, to anyone at all. When he thinks, 'I owe no debt, great or small, to anyone at all,' he experiences bliss, he experiences joy. This is called the bliss of debtlessness..."
- AN 4.62
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Thus indeed, is that Blessed One: He is the Holy One, fully enlightened, endowed with clear vision and virtuous conduct, sublime, the Knower of the worlds, the incomparable leader of men to be tamed, the teacher of gods and men, enlightened and blessed.

Homage to the Teachings
The Dhamma of the Blessed One is perfectly expounded; to be seen here and now; not delayed in
time; inviting one to come and see; onward leading (to Nibbana); to be known by the wise, each for himself.
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:25 am

Greetings,

LonesomeYogurt wrote:Oh, I totally agree - don't rush into ordaining James! Just get to the monastery.

:thumbsup:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby poto » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:03 pm

Firstly, congrats on paying off your debts. I wish I could say the same, but I've only managed to pay off/discharge about half of my debts XD

I'm going to be the odd man out here and suggest you save and take the trip first if it's a big deal for you. My logic behind that is that if you ordain first and have a nagging regret/desire to have taken that trip it might become a hindrance to you. Yet, if you get it out of the way first, you will be free later to devote yourself fully to your practice without regrets.

Whatever you choose, good luck to you :)
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby polarbuddha101 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:30 pm

I would take the trip first if I were you. You may find that you actually want to ordain in Thailand or Sri Lanka instead of Australia, so taking the trip will let you know how you really want to go about ordaining.

:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby reflection » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:34 pm

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but just to increase the fun :D I just transferred the last money I owed. This feels nice. :)
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:37 pm

reflection wrote:Don't mean to hijack this thread, but just to increase the fun :D I just transferred the last money I owed. This feels nice. :)


Congratulations to you too!
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby SamKR » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:58 pm

James the Giant wrote:Ten years after I borrowed the money, I have finally paid off my student loan and credit cards.
Woohoo!
It's an excellent feeling, being free of that damned obligation, that albatross.
And now I am free to ordain, wonderful!

Congratulations! I can imagine how it would feel; I am looking forward to being debt-free myself.

Now I have a choice:
EITHER:
Immediately go to Bodhivana Monastery near Melbourne and become an anagarika there, or perhaps here in Perth at Bodhinyana.

OR:
Save for six more months, and then go visit Thailand, stay at Wat Pa Nanachat for a few months, and visit Sri Lanka, to get a taste of life in a Buddhist country.
Then find a good monastery, probably back here in Australia. (or Wat Pa Nanachat if I like that.)


I would suggest the second option. Visit a Buddhist country but instead of ordaining and staying there come back to a Western country like Australia, stay in a monastery for a certain period time and then if you feel like ordaining do so. I am suggesting this because it would be great to see as many ordination as possible in the West independent of Asian countries.
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby James the Giant » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:07 pm

reflection wrote:Don't mean to hijack this thread, but just to increase the fun :D I just transferred the last money I owed. This feels nice. :)

Congrats to you too!
Now, avoid a mortgage!
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: I finally paid off my debts...

Postby reflection » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:09 pm

James the Giant wrote:
reflection wrote:Don't mean to hijack this thread, but just to increase the fun :D I just transferred the last money I owed. This feels nice. :)

Congrats to you too!
Now, avoid a mortgage!

Haha, indeed! Thanks :) Perhaps we'll meet in our search for possible ordination once, who knows? :anjali: Good luck again.
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