mutti and vimutti

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mutti and vimutti

Postby frank k » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:21 pm

from the VRI pali daily word subscription, today's word is quite similar to yesterday's. Can someone please elaborate on the fine points on the distinction between them?
Is one a more buddhist sense of liberation from samsara, and the other a more conventional liberation, say freedom from incarceration?

the definitions as sent in the email:
vimutti — freedom, release, deliverance, emancipation, liberation
mutti — freedom, release, liberation
http://www.audtip.org Audio Sutta Recordings
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Re: mutti and vimutti

Postby Dmytro » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:22 pm

Hi Frank,

The difference is hardly discernible, and these words can be seen as used interchangeably, e.g. in Patisambhidamagga 2.143:

Vimuttīti dve muttiyo – nibbānañca vimutti, ye ca nibbānārammaṇatājātā dhammā sabbe ca vimuttā hontīti – vimutti phalaṃ.

Best wishes, Dmytro
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Re: mutti and vimutti

Postby rohana » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:02 pm

This is not based on any particular knowledge in Pāli, but in Sinhalese we have the words 'Mukti' and 'Vimukti' (i.e. the Sanksrt equivalents of Mutti and Vimutti), and while they pretty much mean the same thing, sometimes 'Vimukti' is basically adding a further emphasis to the meaning of 'Mukti' via the prefix 'Vi'. So while Mukti is liberation/freedom/release, Vimukti can mean 'complete liberation/complete freedom/ complete release'.
"Delighting in existence, O monks, are gods and men; they are attached to existence, they revel in existence. When the Dhamma for the cessation of existence is being preached to them, their minds do not leap towards it, do not get pleased with it, do not get settled in it, do not find confidence in it. That is how, monks, some lag behind."
- It. p 43
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Re: mutti and vimutti

Postby frank k » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:04 pm

Thanks for the answers Dmytro and Rohana.
How about the difference between passati, vipassati, and the 4 "nupassi" in sammaasati?
Looking up in the dictionary vipassati has an additional element "has intuition" according to CPED, besides just seeing.
Thanissaro defines nupassi in sammaasati as "focused" I believe.
example: " There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself"
idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu kāye kāyānupassī viharati ātāpī sampajāno satimā, vineyya loke abhijjhādomanassaṃ;

are passati, vipassati, nupassi essentially equivalent, or are there shades of nuance or difference in meaning on context?
http://www.audtip.org Audio Sutta Recordings
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Re: mutti and vimutti

Postby Dmytro » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:37 am

Hi Frank,

Regarding anupassī, see:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=15686

Perhaps "vimutti" is rather "emancipation, liberation, release" versus "mutti" - "freedom, liberty".
And "vipassati" is rather "views" versus "passati" - "sees".

It's hard to convey the meaning of 'vi' in English. There are some equivalents in Ukrainian and Russian.
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Re: mutti and vimutti

Postby frank k » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:37 pm

Thanks Dmytro. It will take me some time to digest the anupassi thread. Do you have an index of all of these great threads (on key pali terms)? It would be good to have a sticky thread with an alphabetized index.
http://www.audtip.org Audio Sutta Recordings
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Re: mutti and vimutti

Postby Dmytro » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:08 am

frank k wrote:Thanks Dmytro. It will take me some time to digest the anupassi thread. Do you have an index of all of these great threads (on key pali terms)? It would be good to have a sticky thread with an alphabetized index.


You are welcome. Link to index "Pali Terms" is given in my signature right under the message. I proposed earlier to make it a sticky thread.
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