YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Another voice in the jhana debates - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Another voice in the jhana debates

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Sylvester
Posts: 2205
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Another voice in the jhana debates

Postby Sylvester » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:20 pm


Sylvester
Posts: 2205
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Another voice in the jhana debates

Postby Sylvester » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:34 pm


User avatar
polarbear101
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: California

Re: Another voice in the jhana debates

Postby polarbear101 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:47 pm

Just thought I'd add another voice to the jhana debates:

http://bodhimonastery.org/a-systematic- ... ikaya.html

On this page if you go to the first talk on MN 118 the Anapanasati sutta and skip 47 minutes into the talk Bhikkhu Bodhi explains how he used to think that the commentaries were correct in their description of the 3rd stage of anapanasati but that now he thinks that it means that one experiences the whole physical body but with the main point of reference from which the experience of the whole body emanates still being the nostrils and he goes on to say that he thinks this relates to the jhana similes and the experience of jhana. Anyway, I just thought some people might want to know.
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Re: Another voice in the jhana debates

Postby alan... » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:50 am


User avatar
polarbear101
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: California

Re: Another voice in the jhana debates

Postby polarbear101 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:06 am

Yes, I believe that is the case. If you listen to the talk (and skip 47 minutes in if you want) he says that he used to follow the commentary but that now he thinks it may be mistaken. If you haven't listened to it I would recommend doing so when you have the time.
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Another voice in the jhana debates

Postby daverupa » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:18 pm


Sylvester
Posts: 2205
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Another voice in the jhana debates

Postby Sylvester » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:20 pm

That's true dave. I did say that in the context of the border of mindfulness and jhana, the vitakka vicara are affective. But does that exclude this formation from being ruminative elsewhere? Eg in the sequel to jhana when one regains the ability to reflect. What hope can there be for rumination such as reflection in 2nd jhana upwards even if one grants that this formation functions ruminatively in jhana? One of the pitfalls, I suppose, of arguing by showing the internal inconsistency of the position I disagree with.

So, yes, I'm for the affective inclination interpretation but I won'tbe able to resist the temptation to mount the ruminative counter-argument against the chatty jhana theories.
:tongue:


Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine