Cittasanto wrote:as it says on the tin, "Is critical thinking active vipassana?
it seams to me that it is, but I would like to have your thoughts on this.
I would say it is because it is the application of right effort inwardly to oneself (as described in the video at-least). A looking for the flaws in ones own thoughts, and the philosophies of another (at-least to see if they aim toward the correct place).
For sure. Do you have any of his particular writings or talks in mind?twelph wrote:...it's interesting to compare critical thinking with Sayadaw U Tejaniya's method of asking questions about your thoughts during meditation.
danieLion wrote:For sure. Do you have any of his particular writings or talks in mind?twelph wrote:...it's interesting to compare critical thinking with Sayadaw U Tejaniya's method of asking questions about your thoughts during meditation.
6. Why do you focus so hard when you meditate?
Do you want something?
Do you want something to happen?
Do you want something to stop happening?
Crtical thinking does not pursue definition or conlcusion. It is iterative, something it shares in common with epistemology (science--from a Latin word for "knowledge"--is just an epistemology of iteration).twelph wrote:Though I don't think he is as worried about coming to a definitive conclusion like critical thinking might.
Well, according to the video's conclusion, critical thinking is the art of analyzing and evaluating thinking with a view to improve it. However, It's orientation depends on it's telos, or goal. When combined with Buddhism, the goal becomes quite clear, as you've rightly noticed from Reverend Tejaniya's teachings.twelph wrote:If the point of critical thinking is to analyze a thought in order to question and ascertain certain qualities about it, then what the Sayadaw is teaching seems to fall under critical thinking. I would like to hear someone else's take on it though.
danieLion wrote:Well, according to the video's conclusion, critical thinking is the art of analyzing and evaluating thinking with a view to improve it. However, It's orientation depends on it's telos, or goal. When combined with Buddhism, the goal becomes quite clear, as you've rightly noticed from Reverend Tejaniya's teachings.
ground wrote:What is "Active Vipassana"?
Hearing the Dhamma, he remembers it. Remembering it, he penetrates the meaning of those dhammas. Penetrating the meaning, he comes to an agreement through pondering those dhammas. There being an agreement through pondering those dhammas, desire arises. With the arising of desire, he becomes willing. Willing, he contemplates (lit: "weighs," "compares"). Contemplating, he makes an exertion. Exerting himself, he both realizes the ultimate meaning of the truth with his body and sees by penetrating it with discernment.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
A sutta response:Mr Man wrote:No it isn't. critical thinking is about thought based solutions to thought created problems. Vipassana is transformative. It creates a shift. Critical thinking is of the world.
This is not a matter of conceptual, critical thinking, and it is something that can be cultivated."When for you there will be only the seen in the seen, only the heard in the
heard, only the sensed in the sensed, only the cognized in the cognized,
then, Bahiya, there is no you in terms of that. When there is no you in terms
of that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither
here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of suffering."
-- Ud I 10
I agree. In my opinion insight meditation requires the mind to be still — not dull and uncritical, but not constantly doubting and speculating either.kirk5a wrote:If the analysis doesn't result in stilling, it's papañca.
Beyond Reasoning and Speculation
When the Buddha was first considering whether or not to teach, he thought, “This truth that I have realised is very profound. Though it is sublime and conducive to inner peace, it is hard to understand. Since it is subtle and not accessible to mere intellect and logic, it can be realised only by the wise.” Great thinkers from all cultures have thought deeply about freedom from the misery of aging, disease, and death, but such freedom would mean nibbāna, which is beyond the scope of reason and intellect. It can be realised only by practising the right method of insight meditation. Most great thinkers have relied on intellect and logical reasoning to conceive various principles for the well-being of humanity. As these principles are based on speculations, they do not help anyone to attain insight, let alone the supreme goal of nibbāna. Even the lowest stage of insight, namely, analytical knowledge of mind and matter (nāmarūpa-pariccheda-ñāna), cannot be realised intellectually. This insight dawns only when one observes the mental and physical process using the systematic method of mindfulness (satipatthāna), and when, with the development of concentration, one distinguishes between mental and physical phenomena — for example, between the desire to bend the hand and the bent hand, or between the sound and the hearing. Such knowledge is not vague and speculative, but vivid and empirical.
The Pāli texts say that mind and matter are constantly changing, and that we should observe their arising and passing away. However, for the beginner in meditation, this is easier said than done. One has to exert strenuous effort to overcome mental hindrances (nīvarana). Even freedom from such hindrances only helps one to distinguish between mind and matter; it does not ensure insight into the process of their arising and passing away. This insight is attained only on the basis of strong concentration and keen perception developed through the practice of mindfulness. Constant mindfulness of the arising and passing away of phenomena leads to insight into their characteristics of impermanence (anicca), unsatisfactoriness (dukkha), and not-self (anattā). However, this is merely a lower stage of insight, which is still far from the Path and its Fruition. So, the Dhamma is described as something beyond logic and intellect.
Mr Man wrote:No it isn't. critical thinking is about thought based solutions to thought created problems. Vipassana is transformative. It creates a shift. Critical thinking is of the world.
Would be interested to hear from robertk and also from those with a strong "classical" sutta understanding would have to say?
Here is an extract from Dhamma talk:
Acharn:seeing arising and seeing sees but acctually how come to be seeing? No
self, No body. While one is fast asleep no one there at all. No friend, no
possesion, no name, no world.
But how come sound appearing? See, it indicates anattaness, when there is right
time for hearing to hear whatever sound is there it has to arise..by conditions.
And than goes away instantly. Unknowingly from birth to death. So it's not
understanding reality at all. There is always thinking, about realities or about
subject, different subject like medicine, and architecture and history. But not
the understanding any reality at all. But one has to be born and die. For sure.
Because acctually there is no one who is born, and no one who dies. But this is
a conditioned reality.
No one can stop it. The arising and falling away of a reality.
What about at this moment of seeing. It is so real, because whatever is seen is
seen, now...We dont need to say this is nama, which sees and the ruupa is seen.
Not necessery at all. That is not the way. But the way to understand is that
when there is seeing right now, there is seeing. What does it sees? What is
seen? The thing that is seen is not the seeing. So there is beginning of
understanding, the nature of reality.
Be http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastu ... age/129346
Plato was a fascist and fascism is completely incompatible with critical thinking and vipassana. Who are thes bone-head scholars you refer to?twelph wrote:It starts to get really interesting if you view Plato's "The One" and "The Good" as a form of enlightenment like some scholars have chosen to do.