zen non duality and theravada

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
pegembara
Posts: 3465
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: zen non duality and theravada

Post by pegembara »

Zen master Dae Kwang was giving a speech.

Halfway through, the thunder started to sound.. Someone asked a question, he said "can you hear the thunder?" *thunder claps* "that is it! that is the answer from Buddha (laughter)" And five more questions came - what is enlightened person, who can become enlightened, how to practice and become enlightened, all dharmas return to one one returns to what?, etc.

And his answer to each question was, "did you hear the thunder?"

Then it started to rain, it got so loud that he stopped speaking and we just sat there. The rain itself becomes the dharma talk... so everyone sat there in meditation... the zen master sat very still. Just the sound of dripping rain filling the whole universe... the sound enjoying and hearing itself... that's Buddha, clear and blissful.

Then after 20 minutes he began to speak. He said you don't need to remember anything I said... the rain is the best dharma talk. So the talk ended, 15 minutes early.


" Non duality means to stay with whatever arises so that there is no subject and no object. "
Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

'In the seen will be merely what is seen; in the heard will be merely what is heard; in the sensed will be merely what is sensed; in the cognized will be merely what is cognized.'
Bahiya Sutta
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Re: zen non duality and theravada

Post by alan... »

pegembara wrote:Zen master Dae Kwang was giving a speech.

Halfway through, the thunder started to sound.. Someone asked a question, he said "can you hear the thunder?" *thunder claps* "that is it! that is the answer from Buddha (laughter)" And five more questions came - what is enlightened person, who can become enlightened, how to practice and become enlightened, all dharmas return to one one returns to what?, etc.

And his answer to each question was, "did you hear the thunder?"

Then it started to rain, it got so loud that he stopped speaking and we just sat there. The rain itself becomes the dharma talk... so everyone sat there in meditation... the zen master sat very still. Just the sound of dripping rain filling the whole universe... the sound enjoying and hearing itself... that's Buddha, clear and blissful.

Then after 20 minutes he began to speak. He said you don't need to remember anything I said... the rain is the best dharma talk. So the talk ended, 15 minutes early.


" Non duality means to stay with whatever arises so that there is no subject and no object. "
Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

'In the seen will be merely what is seen; in the heard will be merely what is heard; in the sensed will be merely what is sensed; in the cognized will be merely what is cognized.'
Bahiya Sutta
this is a really good talk. i dig it.
alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Re: zen non duality and theravada

Post by alan... »

i think the whole non duality thing is definitely a true idea but i think it can get in the way in the early stages of practice. trying to wrap your head around it and listening to ideas about how one should not waste time meditating and should not practice at all because of the non dual nature of reality is really dangerous. in the end i'm sure consciousness naturally understands and remains in non duality, hence the cessation of suffering. i find the ideas and teachings of non duality to be very important as long as they are not seen as reason to fail to practice the eight fold path.

being mindful and meditating is cultivating a mind that leads to non duality. skipping these steps is putting the carriage before the horse. it is a philosophical argument that cannot be beaten that because everything is non dual we are at once enlightened and also deluded, but this is just an idea. to really get there we must practice the whole path.

or so i think... and so did the buddha teach. and so on.
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