Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Mojo
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by Mojo »

Thanks for the recommendations. For those familiar with both Buddhadasa and Rosenberg, what are the main differences in their presentations of Anapanasati? I should also note that I'm not particularly interested in whether I attain jhana or not.
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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

Mojo wrote:Thanks for the recommendations. For those familiar with both Buddhadasa and Rosenberg, what are the main differences in their presentations of Anapanasati? I should also note that I'm not particularly interested in whether I attain jhana or not.
Generally, Rosenberg is a little less structured in his practice; whereas Buddhadasa instructs one to go through all sixteen steps, one by one, during each session, Rosenberg is more free-form. This might be better for an introduction, but I think Buddhadasa is one who really captures the essence of "capital-A" Anapanasati practice instead of just general breath meditation. Otherwise, I think Buddhadasa has a little more concrete, practical advice versus the somewhat more "spiritual" or vague instructions Rosenberg can give. Both are good teachers, but I would definitely go with Buddhadasa if you're looking for the more comprehensive and all-in-one guide.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
danieLion
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by danieLion »

LonesomeYogurt wrote:...go with Buddhadasa if you're looking for the more comprehensive and all-in-one guide.
I agree. I also found it helpful to combine it with Ajahn Lee's Keeping the Breathe In Mind and Thanissaro's guided meditations online and his written instructions from various of his writings. His latest book is a anapanasati manual and basically a compilation of all he'd done before, so there's no need to mine his works like I did.
beeblebrox
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by beeblebrox »

Hi everyone,

Just so that there isn't any confusion... the book includes a translation, with some interpretation, basically to keep it from being dry. It's complete with the 16 exercises. There's also a commentary by Nhat Hanh.

Generally, the lay people who I practice with don't do this exclusively. It's more like a foundation. There's also guided meditation, that they do sometimes. They do walking meditation, and they also do a sharing at the end... where they usually would just talk about what's been going on with life, and how they apply their practice.

That's it pretty much. There are different types of people practicing together. I think that it's nice.

:anjali:
Spiny Norman
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by Spiny Norman »

lojong1 wrote:
porpoise wrote:I'd be interested to hear how you get on, and if there is any meditation instruction. I was involved in an Interbeing Sangha for a number of years.
I sit with interbeings once in a while here as the only group sit on that night. Bell rings and we sit 20mins, walk 10mins, sit 20 mins, and then about an hour of reading or chants or whatever thingy for the week, finishing with a tea circle. There hasn't been any sitting instructions but we are free to ask. Walkng is super slow with attention mostly on foot sensations and matching step to breath.
I enjoy the company but wouldn't want it to be my only source for buddha-dhamma-vinaya.
I led mindfulness days from time to time, usually it would be a sit-walk-sit in the morning, lunch in silence and then sharing etc in the afternoon. I don't recall any formal instruction in meditation, I think the idea was that people learned meditation on retreat.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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mikenz66
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by mikenz66 »

One of the interesting things about that book is that it contains translations of both the Pali sutta and the equivalent sutra translated from Chinese (which was in turn translated from Sanskrit). This predates the recent interest in such comparisons.

:anjali:
Mike
danieLion
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by danieLion »

mikenz66 wrote:One of the interesting things about that book is that it contains translations of both the Pali sutta and the equivalent sutra translated from Chinese (which was in turn translated from Sanskrit). This predates the recent interest in such comparisons.

:anjali:
Mike
That's an excellent point. Despite what I said above, I still do draw on this translation from time to time.
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Paribbajaka
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by Paribbajaka »

Cittasanto wrote:if I remember the Book propperly his has the only english rendering of the Chinese Agama versions that are freely & readily available in English, so it has some worth from that perspective. But I have never really liked the lovey dovey approach or the realigning of sanghadisesa rules that his community has done so.
Not to confront you, but out of a genuine interest, why the dislike for the "lovey dovey" approach? I have seen that sentiment reiterated often enough amongst both online and offline Buddhists to take note of it, and it puzzles me. I have never, not even in Thich Nhat Hanh's writings, seen an approach to the Dhamma that is purely all sunshine and rainbows. But it's important to keep in mind that when dealing with a religion that places emphasis on things like compassion, lovin-kindness, non-harm, etc. things will get a little saccharine from time to time :anjali:
May all beings be happy!
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marc108
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by marc108 »

free :)

http://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index. ... verybreath
A new breath meditation manual by Thanissaro Bhikkhu drawing on two sources: the Buddha’s own set of instructions on how to use the breath in training the mind, and Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo’s method of breath meditation — which builds on the Buddha’s instructions, explaining in detail many of the points that the Buddha left in condensed form. A page has been added to this site with download links to all of the .mp3 dhammatalks referenced in this manual: With Each & Every Breath audio files.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
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Lazy_eye
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by Lazy_eye »

Paribbajaka wrote: Not to confront you, but out of a genuine interest, why the dislike for the "lovey dovey" approach? I have seen that sentiment reiterated often enough amongst both online and offline Buddhists to take note of it, and it puzzles me. I have never, not even in Thich Nhat Hanh's writings, seen an approach to the Dhamma that is purely all sunshine and rainbows. But it's important to keep in mind that when dealing with a religion that places emphasis on things like compassion, lovin-kindness, non-harm, etc. things will get a little saccharine from time to time :anjali:
Thich Nhat Hanh writes in a direct, plainspoken style which can be mistaken for sentimentality, though I suspect this is often projection on the part of the reader. He also mentions flowers and children a lot.

I certainly don't think the purpose of his books is to induce transports of sentimental attachment; rather they are designed to encourage reflection and awareness of impermanence.
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Aloka
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by Aloka »

I once read a couple of Thich Nhat Hahns books quite some time ago - and wasn't too impressed (though obviously his motivation was very good!)

WhenI read them, I thought they were quite unnecessarily flowery and sentimental - for example talking about holding and caring for anger like a baby - and going into lengthy idealised descriptions of mother and baby scenarios. :shrug:

There's a section about Anapanasati in "Now is the Knowing" by Ajahn Sumedho :

http://www.buddhanet.net/nowknow2.htm

.
Last edited by Aloka on Sat May 11, 2013 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Paribbajaka
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by Paribbajaka »

Aloka wrote:I once read a couple of Thich Nhat Hahns books and wasn't too impressed (though obviously his motivation was very good!)

I thought they were quite unnecessarily flowery and sentimental - for example talking about holding and caring for anger like a baby - and going into lengthy idealised descriptions of mother and baby scenarios. :shrug:
.
Lord Buddha wrote: As a mother would risk her life
to protect her child, her only child,
even so should one cultivate a limitless heart
with regard to all beings.
With good will for the entire cosmos,
cultivate a limitless heart:
How very unBuddhalike of him :tongue:
May all beings be happy!
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Aloka
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by Aloka »

Paribbajaka wrote:
Aloka wrote:I once read a couple of Thich Nhat Hahns books and wasn't too impressed (though obviously his motivation was very good!)

I thought they were quite unnecessarily flowery and sentimental - for example talking about holding and caring for anger like a baby - and going into lengthy idealised descriptions of mother and baby scenarios. :shrug:
.
Lord Buddha wrote: As a mother would risk her life
to protect her child, her only child,
even so should one cultivate a limitless heart
with regard to all beings.
With good will for the entire cosmos,
cultivate a limitless heart:
How very unBuddhalike of him :tongue:
A statement by the Buddha about how a mother would risk her life to protect her child isn't quite the same thing.

I suggest you read the sections with the titles: "Caring for Your Baby, Anger" and "Holding Your Baby," inThich Nhat Hhan's book "Anger" to see what I'm refering to.

:)
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Paribbajaka
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by Paribbajaka »

Aloka wrote:A statement by the Buddha about how a mother would risk her life to protect her child isn't quite the same thing.

I suggest you read the sections with the titles: "Caring for Your Baby, Anger" and "Holding Your Baby," inThich Nhat Hhan's book "Anger" to see what I'm refering to.

:)
I've read Anger. I don't dispute that Thich Nhat Hanh can get a little fluffy at times, but he is teaching the Dhamma and it is reaching people who may other wise never reach. I perosnally know many Buddhists who began to practice due to TNH and have since become sincere and dedicated practitioners (I also know many who still hold him as there primary source and are still sincere and dedicated practitioners). Different tastes for different palletes.
May all beings be happy!
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Aloka
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Re: Breathe! You Are Alive - good interpretation?

Post by Aloka »

Paribbajaka wrote:
... Different tastes for different palletes.
Sure, "different strokes for different folks" as the old saying goes here in the UK.

:smile:
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