Ajahn Brahm for sale?

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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:11 pm

tiltbillings wrote:Naughty Ajahn Brahm. Literalist Cittasanto.

Literalistic? do I say they shouldn't have the multi-million dollar complex they are planning? no, I am saying they shouldn't make the life and status they have a commodity for sale to the highest bidder.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby santa100 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:12 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Well, then they have something of interest inside themselves to consider.

It doesn't have to start that way if the lay staff does it instead of the venerable..
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:15 pm

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:19 pm

Cittasanto wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Naughty Ajahn Brahm. Literalist Cittasanto.

Literalistic? do I say they shouldn't have the multi-million dollar complex they are planning? no, I am saying they shouldn't make the life and status they have a commodity for sale to the highest bidder.
That is your interpretation and opinion, but opinions -- and that is what is being expressed here -- obviously vary.

I would say to those here whose noses are a bit bent by what Ven B is doing, get together and drop him a line expressing your opinions about his choice of behavior. Obviously the issue is not going to be solved by all the back and forth going on here.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:20 pm

santa100 wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Well, then they have something of interest inside themselves to consider.

It doesn't have to start that way if the lay staff does it instead of the venerable..
What are you really objecting to here?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:27 pm

Dan74 wrote:I thought this was quite common practice anyway, in that monks would spend time with the largest benefactors.

Indeed, there are passages like this all over the suttas:
"May Master Gotama, together with the community of monks, acquiesce to my offer of tomorrow's meal."
The Blessed One acquiesced with silence.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

King Kiki Kàsiràjà took a low seat and siting said thus to the Blessed One [Former Buddha Kassapa]: Venerable sir, may the Blessed One accept to spend the rains in Benares, I will attend on the Blessed One and the community in this manner. The Blessed One Kassapa perfect and rightfully enlightened said I have already accepted to spend the rains. King Kiki Kàsiràjà entreated the Blessed One up to the third time and the Blessed One Kassapa said I have already accepted to spend the rains. Then king Kiki Kàsiràjà was displeased and unpleasant, thinking, the Blessed One Kassapa perfect rightfully enlightened does not accept my invitation. He asked the Blessed One Kassapa. Venerable sir, is there some other enticing supporter? Great king, in the chief village, Vebhalinga there is a potter named Ghatikara, he is my chief supporter.
http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... ra-e1.html

It should be clear to anyone with more than a casual involvement that the millions of dollars it takes to build and support even modest monasteries generally comes from rich supporters, like those in the Suttas.

Mostly such things are organised quietly (such as who are going to be major sponsors of a Kathina ceremony). I think this is an interesting move, which makes the process crystal clear.

:anjali:
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby santa100 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:30 pm

tiltbilling wrote:
What are you really objecting to here?

Not quite "objecting" but there're other better ways. By the way, to those who would like to contact the venerable and share their opinions, below is the web site. It says the venerable doesn't have email but there're phone numbers and address location..

http://www.ajahnbrahm.org/index.php
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:32 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Naughty Ajahn Brahm. Literalist Cittasanto.

Literalistic? do I say they shouldn't have the multi-million dollar complex they are planning? no, I am saying they shouldn't make the life and status they have a commodity for sale to the highest bidder.
That is your interpretation and opinion, but opinions -- and that is what is being expressed here -- obviously vary.

Am I saying it is anything other than my interpretation or opinion?

Mikenz had previously asked about where this is coming from, the logic... so I have showed where mine is based.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:33 pm

mikenz66 wrote: Mostly such things are organised quietly (such as who are going to be major sponsors of a Kathina ceremony). I think this is an interesting move, which makes the process crystal clear.
I think the problem, for some here, is that Ven B is having some fun with all this, and of course fun is unseemly for a bhikkhu. Mustn't we be dour to be a proper follower of the Dhamma?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:35 pm

santa100 wrote:
tiltbilling wrote:
What are you really objecting to here?

Not quite "objecting" but there're other better ways.
Which is, of course, your opinion and opinions obviously vary.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:36 pm

Cittasanto wrote:
Mikenz had previously asked about where this is coming from, the logic... so I have showed where mine is based.
And he has also just offered a nice counter to that. So, where does that leave us in this opinion ping-pong game?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby santa100 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:43 pm

tiltbilling wrote:
Which is, of course, your opinion and opinions obviously vary.


Of course it's all opinion here. At least I showed the reasons for concern here. And we should share our opinions not only among ourselves but to the venerable too, so that he'd know what the lay community's thinking..
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Mr Man » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:46 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
I would say to those here whose noses are a bit bent by what Ven B is doing, get together and drop him a line expressing your opinions about his choice of behavior. Obviously the issue is not going to be solved by all the back and forth going on here.
Do you think that the Ven. Ajahn doesn't know that he would be bending noses?
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:46 pm

mikenz66 wrote:It should be clear to anyone with more than a casual involvement that the millions of dollars it takes to build and support even modest monasteries generally comes from rich supporters, like those in the Suttas.

Mostly such things are organised quietly (such as who are going to be major sponsors of a Kathina ceremony). I think this is an interesting move, which makes the process crystal clear.

:anjali:
Mike

do you see a difference between a sporting event sponsorship and [bidding at] a bachelor auction?

edit in square bracket
Last edited by Cittasanto on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:51 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
Mikenz had previously asked about where this is coming from, the logic... so I have showed where mine is based.
And he has also just offered a nice counter to that. So, where does that leave us in this opinion ping-pong game?

not that it is or isn't a nice counter, but that doesn't change anything about it not being claimed to be more than it is.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Mr Man » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:04 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Mostly such things are organised quietly (such as who are going to be major sponsors of a Kathina ceremony). I think this is an interesting move, which makes the process crystal clear.

If I were to put a positive spin on it I would say that it meant more as a wake up call and to make it clear that more support is needed and this is how far the Ven. Ajahn will go rather than a serious new development in fund raising techniques.
Last edited by Mr Man on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Billymac29 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:05 pm

I dont see much difference between this and paying for a meditation retreat at a monastery... Many monasteries have dana bowls or collectors where the money goes to help support the monastery... The lay people in the community usually handle the money that deal with monetary needs of the monastery.. Monasteries offer dhamma talks, meditation instruction, and question and answer with teacher...

Don't see the difference and why this is such a big deal for people. Although the title "Ajahn Brahm for Sale" leaves much to be desired..

may all be well
:anjali:
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby marc108 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:08 pm

Anyone who wants to see Ajahn Brahm can drop by his center and see him at one of any number of talks and groups he runs completely free of charge. The purpose of that auction is to raise money for the Nunnery. The issue here is that people are making broad judgements from narrow contextual understandings. It's a problem when we start pointing fingers about things we dont understand & making broad sweeping judgements about things like selling status without so much as even reaching out to the BSWA for clarification or to express our concerns in a reasonable way? we look at a website and explode in anger and judgement?
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:10 pm

I have said as much, if not more than, I should have and my only response to all of this kerfuffle is:

Image
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:16 pm

Greetings,
Cittasanto wrote:

:goodpost:

:goodpost:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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