Ajahn Brahm for sale?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Cittasanto
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Cittasanto »

tiltbillings wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
and what point is that?
Hmmm. A trick question.
Ok if you have no point or don't want to explain, buy!
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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings »

Mr Man wrote:
I don't know if they have to be dour but they do have great symbolic significance (a manifestation of the tripple gem) and are part of a tradition.
Unquestionably, but I wonder if they need to suffer under conformity to the symbolic significance, which seems to be what this thread is really about.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

tiltbillings wrote:I'd have my own prvt retreat and let him run the schedule.
I'd take him Go-Kart riding.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

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retrofuturist
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
I don't know if they have to be dour but they do have great symbolic significance (a manifestation of the tripple gem) and are part of a tradition.
Unquestionably, but I wonder if they need to suffer under conformity to the symbolic significance, which seems to be what this thread is really about.
It's hardly "suffer[ing] under conformity" to not be auctioning one's self and the bhikkhu's saffron robes to the highest bidder.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Mr Man wrote:If I were to put a positive spin on it I would say that it meant more as a wake up call and to make it clear that more support is needed and this is how far the Ven. Ajahn will go rather than a serious new development in fund raising techniques.
I would say its an indication of desperation. Apparently the nuns are not getting as much financial support as they need, or are their plans just too ambitious?

Perhaps Ajahn Brahm should try to get some bookings for stand-up gigs instead of sit-down gigs?

The baseless accusations of dour-faced Buddhists disapproving of the Venerable Brahmavamso's silliness just shows that some are totally ignorant of the Vinaya and the Buddhist tradition.

If the nuns are serious about following the Bhikkhuni Vinaya, they should reject any funds received by inappropriate methods. If they want to live the holy life in full let them try to raise their own funds in ways that are appropriate for monastics — which basically means waiting for an offer of support to be made (although if one has no dwelling place it is allowable to drop a hint). Such limitations do not apply to lay supporters or devotees — they can appeal for funds, or organise food-fairs, etc., to raise funds even for a “multi-million dollar project.”
NP20: Should any bhikkhu engage in various types of trade, it (the article obtained) is to be forfeited and confessed.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
The baseless accusations of dour-faced Buddhists disapproving of the Venerable Brahmavamso's silliness just shows that some are totally ignorant of the Vinaya and the Buddhist tradition.
Probably not totally baseless or totally ignorant, bhante, but I am certainly finding the intensity of the negative response to Ven Brahm's curious choice interesting and bit unfortunate. As i have said, those of you who are finding Ven B's action a scandal, you should get together and send him a detailed objection to his "selling" of himself. No doubt his response would be of no small intertest to many of us on either side or no side of this tea-pottish storm.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Dan74
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Dan74 »

Some may be interested in our sister site Dharma Wheel's response to the same news:

http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f= ... ad601c31a4
_/|\_
Rasko
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Rasko »

If this sale thing is OK for bhikkhus, then in my opinion the bhikkhunis should have gone for:

Bhikkhunis for sale!

With photos and intro videos, if they are otherwise unknown. They should strive for independence instead of always relying on some father figure.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings »

Dan74 wrote:Some may be interested in our sister site Dharma Wheel's response to the same news:

http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f= ... ad601c31a4
Those Mahayanists. Not dour.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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retrofuturist
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
tiltbillings wrote:Those Mahayanists. Not dour.
... with their institutionalized precedent of Vinaya violations in the name of skilful means and bodhisattva ideals?

Doesn't work for me, but best of luck to them.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Dan74
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Dan74 »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
tiltbillings wrote:Those Mahayanists. Not dour.
... with their institutionalized precedent of Vinaya violations in the name of skilful means and bodhisattva ideals?

Doesn't work for me, but best of luck to them.

Metta,
Retro. :)
Indeed these are problematic. Absolutes on the other hand, are much more comforting.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Dan74 wrote:Indeed these are problematic. Absolutes on the other hand, are much more comforting.
Not absolutes - just the Dhammavinaya laid down by The Teacher.

:buddha1:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Dan74
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Dan74 »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Dan74 wrote:Indeed these are problematic. Absolutes on the other hand, are much more comforting.
Not absolutes - just the Dhammavinaya laid down by The Teacher.

:buddha1:

Metta,
Retro. :)
Dhammavinaya or a take on Dhammavinaya?

It seems these discussions return to the same point - are we conflating the teachings with an interpretation of the teachings? And is there one correct interpretation which is therefore equivalent to the teachings themselves?

My motivation will likely be taken as being insecure or defensive. Samasara, eh? We do the same rounds over and over again...

:group:
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imagemarie
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by imagemarie »

Hi :anjali:

Sense of humour apart (!), I just find it a bit tacky that a Bhikkhu should slot so seemlessly into the consumerist paradigm that everything has a price and may be bought.. Returning to the marketplace, and skilful means justify the ends, perhaps :stirthepot:

But it isn't going against the stream is it?

:anjali:
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pilgrim
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by pilgrim »

Can one of the dour-faces please point out exactly which Vinaya rule is being transgressed? :tongue:
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