anapanasati first four tetrads

Discussion of Samatha bhavana and Jhana bhavana.

anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby alan... » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:35 am

anyone care to give their own personal commentary on them, however brief or detailed?

the first tetrad is more or less self explanatory, however if anyone believes it is anything bud breath mindfulness to lead to access concentration or something similar by all means share.

the second and third both seem to be about jhana, unless i'm missing something? are they to mean that one should go through all eight jhanas and then contemplate the things in the fourth tetrad? if so, why not call them jhana like usual? why is the word "jhana" not used even once?

finally the fourth tetrad: how are we to practice it? what exactly are we contemplating, and how?
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby Samma » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:31 am

The 16 steps are best viewed as how to develop mindfulness of breathing as satipatthana (establishing mindfulness) since the tetrads line up with the four frames of reference. The 16 steps are giving a general structure to an overall practice. I don't think they necessarily refer to jhana. For example, piti can arise in different ways, out of absorption, as well as in absorption. Probably best to think of piti as anywhere from early experiences of rapture (goosebumps, etc) through 2nd jhana (edit- and beyond. Thanissaro: "The highest level of rapture—
what SN 36:31 calls “rapture more not-of-the-flesh than that not of the flesh”—is
the rapture felt by an arahant when reflecting on the fact that his/her mind is
totally free from passion, aversion, and delusion."). I'll refer to Analayo:
Since these two are factors of absorption, their occurrence in this part of the sixteen steps has led the Visuddhimagga to the assumption that this progression refers exclusively to absorption experience.68 Possibly because of this assumption, even the first four steps of mindfulness of breathing in the Satipatthana Sutta have at times been identified as being no more than a concentration practice.69
Here it needs to be noted that the occurrence of joy (piti) and happiness (sukha) as steps five and six in the scheme of the Anapanasati Sutta does not necessarily require the experience of absorption, since both can occur apart from such attainment.70 According to a verse in the Dhammapada, for example joy (piti) can arise as the result of insight meditation.71 Thus awareness of the breath whilst experiencing joy of happiness is not necessarily confined to retrospective analysis after emerging from an absorption attainment, nor to the stages of calmness meditation immediately preceding such attainment. (Satipatthana, p. 128-9)


The first, and last two you don't seem to have a specific question, so I don't want to comment in depth, leaving that to someone farther along the path and better read, and would refer you to a text like the above, Thanissaro's right mindfulness, etc.
Last edited by Samma on Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby manas » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:46 am

alan... wrote: the second and third both seem to be about jhana, unless i'm missing something? are they to mean that one should go through all eight jhanas and then contemplate the things in the fourth tetrad? if so, why not call them jhana like usual? why is the word "jhana" not used even once?


Not having heard this question answered before, I will venture an opinion which is therefore not authoritative, but here goes: because the specific subject matter of that sutta is anapanasati.

You could just as well ask, "why doesn't he mention anapanasati in the samannaphala sutta, where the four jhanas are discussed in such detail?" Because anapanasati was not the specific subject matter he was setting out to cover in that sutta. That sutta was about 'the fruits of the homeless life'.

One could ask, "Why doesn't he mention either anapanasati, or jhana, in the 'pancavaggi sutta'? Because that sutta is specifically about the five khandhas. And so on...

But that doesn't mean that in our actual practice, we won't end up using all of these things. We could be doing anapanasati, in jhana, and contemplating the five khandhas, all in the same sitting! We might have needed to previously have studied all three of those suttas, so that we know what to do. But those three suttas don't have to mention each other, they are each specific to their subject matter...know what I mean?

That's my take on it, anyway :)

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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby Spiny Norman » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:03 am

alan... wrote:anyone care to give their own personal commentary on them, however brief or detailed?


I think the first 3 tetrads are about calming and gladdening the mind so that it is ready for insight in the 4th tetrad. And I can see a correlation with the 7 factors of enlightenment.
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby Spiny Norman » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:07 am

Samma wrote:The 16 steps are best views as how to develop mindfulness of breathing as satipatthana (establishing mindfulness) since the tetrads line up with the four frames of reference. The 16 steps are giving a general structure to an overall practice. I don't think they necessarily refer to jhana. For example, piti can arise in different ways, out of absorption, as well as in absorption. Probably best to think of piti as anywhere from early experiences of rapture (goosebumps, etc) though 2nd jhana. I'll refer to Analayo:


I'm not sure I agree about the correlation with satipatthana because the first 3 tetrads look to me more like samatha practice.
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby daverupa » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:26 am

Satipatthana is part of constant practice, as satisampajanna.

Anapanasati is a particular way of doing satipatthana whereby one calms kaya- & citta-sankhara, as well as citta altogether, in order to facilitate a tranquil letting go, leading to seclusion from kamaguna and akusaladhamma & thereby enabling jhana.

Just as with satipatthana, the guide is the map, but the terrain for each of us requires skillful navigation; right view is the forerunner here because it is only with the cessation of doubt about wholesome & unwholesome that one becomes unerring in this. It needn't be the cessation of doubt such that a stream-entrant experiences, but that hindrance needs dealing with at least (as do the other four).

The piti of the second tetrad is the piti factor of awakening, arising due to energy (sammaviriya, as above) which springs from dhammavicaya, itself a result of sati. It can be present when doing the first tetrad, and is itself the condition for tranquility, which is the condition for samadhi (again, as above).

IMO, of course.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby Spiny Norman » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:38 am

daverupa wrote:The piti of the second tetrad is the piti factor of awakening, arising due to energy (sammaviriya, as above) which springs from dhammavicaya, itself a result of sati. It can be present when doing the first tetrad, and is itself the condition for tranquility, which is the condition for samadhi (again, as above).


Though in the 4 tetrads it looks like tranquillity is a basis for dhammavicaya in the 4 tetrad?
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby daverupa » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:48 am

porpoise wrote:Though in the 4 tetrads it looks like tranquillity is a basis for dhammavicaya in the 4 tetrad?


Sati is engaged as a precursor to any of the tetrads, which is the condition for dhammavicaya. This is required for tranquility as a factor for awakening, as opposed to some other state of relaxation which may or may not be a hindrance (sloth, torpor) or a sensual cord (kamaguna).
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby Dmytro » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:05 pm

Hi Alan,

alan... wrote:the second and third both seem to be about jhana, unless i'm missing something?


They have a lot to do with jhana. This is explained in Vimuttimagga, pages 161-162, and Patisambhidamagga.

are they to mean that one should go through all eight jhanas and then contemplate the things in the fourth tetrad?


It's not so simple. First, formless attainments (aka 5-8 jhanas) are unsuitable for the development of wisdom.
Any of the four jhanas provide an excellent ground for wisdom development. Still wisdom can be developed without jhanas as well.

The sixteen kinds of Anapanasati practice are not a linear progression of "steps".

finally the fourth tetrad: how are we to practice it? what exactly are we contemplating, and how?


The last tetrad of Anapanasati sutta is a shortened version of seven selective recognitions (saññā), as explained in the Anapanasati chapter of Patisambhidamagga:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2834#p217290
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby alan... » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:24 am

Dmytro wrote:Hi Alan,

alan... wrote:the second and third both seem to be about jhana, unless i'm missing something?


They have a lot to do with jhana. This is explained in Vimuttimagga, pages 161-162, and Patisambhidamagga.

are they to mean that one should go through all eight jhanas and then contemplate the things in the fourth tetrad?


It's not so simple. First, formless attainments (aka 5-8 jhanas) are unsuitable for the development of wisdom.
Any of the four jhanas provide an excellent ground for wisdom development. Still wisdom can be developed without jhanas as well.

The sixteen kinds of Anapanasati practice are not a linear progression of "steps".

finally the fourth tetrad: how are we to practice it? what exactly are we contemplating, and how?


The last tetrad of Anapanasati sutta is a shortened version of seven selective recognitions (saññā), as explained in the Anapanasati chapter of Patisambhidamagga:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2834#p217290


this lead to "mindfulness of breathing" by bhikkhu nanmoli. thanks much. :anjali:
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby polarbuddha101 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:40 am

porpoise wrote:
I'm not sure I agree about the correlation with satipatthana because the first 3 tetrads look to me more like samatha practice.


The anapanasati sutta explicitly says that anapanasati brings satipatthana to its culmination. The 4 tetrads in anapanasati are the four satipatthanas: body, feelings, mind, dhammas.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby alan... » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:41 am

now i'm at a loss again, the commentary/visuddhimagga approach is that the first three tetrads are a map of breathing into jhana, then the fourth is insight practice, but it doesn't say how to do it! it just says:

" But as regards the fourth
tetrad, here firstly, “
Contemplating impermanence
” means that the impermanent should be
understood, impermanence should be understood,
contemplation of impermanence should be understood, and one
contemplating impermanence should be understood. Here,
“impermanent” are the five aggregates. Why? Because of their
rise and fall and change. “Impermanence” is just their rise and
fall and change. Or it is their being no more after coming to be.
The meaning is that things that are in a process of becoming, by
not persisting in that quality, break up in momentary
dissolution. “Contemplation of impermanence” is the
contemplation of that “materiality, etc., as impermanent by
reason of that impermanence.” “One contemplating
impermanence” is one possessed of that contemplation.
Therefore, such a one breathing in and breathing out should be
understood here thus: “Contemplating impermanence, I shall
breathe in ... shall breathe out, thus he trains himself.”


http://www.bps.lk/olib/bp/bp502s.pdf
and similar things for the other items.

so am i looking at these things? the aggregates and what not?

how? just think: "form and how it's impermanent?" it feels like i'm just tossing information around that i already know. i've done this after jhana many times and i clearly see them as impermanent, not self, etc. is this all i'm to do?

how is this to lead to release? to be fair directly afterwards i have playfully mused that i was enlightened lol! there is no grasping, i see with 100% certainty that there is no self and so on. nothing bothers me, my thoughts come up in a third person kind of way, even hunger and thirst "this body needs food." as opposed to "i'm hungry!"

i'm not bragging because then, after between one hour and maybe a day or so, this completely goes away and i'm the same old deluded, suffering fool. so really i've done nothing unique whatsoever and so i feel comfortable listing out my (non) attainments.

so i just keep doing it day after day and eventually it will stick?
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby pegembara » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:13 am

Step 1 calming bodily fabrication
Step 2 calming mental fabrication
Step 3 releasing the mind
Step 4 focusing on inconstancy
focusing on dispassion
focusing on cessation
focusing on relinquishment
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Steps 1-3 are preparatory steps (jhanas) whereas Step 4 leads to insight of anicca , dukkha, anatta then nirodha and letting go.

Dhammapada
277. "All conditioned things are impermanent" — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.

278. "All conditioned things are unsatisfactory" — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.

279. "All things are not-self" — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby Dmytro » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:22 am

Hi Alan,

alan... wrote:so am i looking at these things? the aggregates and what not?

how? just think: "form and how it's impermanent?" it feels like i'm just tossing information around that i already know. i've done this after jhana many times and i clearly see them as impermanent, not self, etc. is this all i'm to do?


Good questions.

Contemplation of impermanence refers to selective recognition of rise and fall of five aggregates:

"And in what way, brethren, does does the perceiving of impermanence wear out all sensual lust, all lust for body, all desire for rebirth, wears out all ignorance, tears out all conceit of “I am”?

It is by seeing: “Such is body; such is the arising of body; such is the ceasing of body. Such is feeling; such is the arising of feeling; such is the ceasing of feeling. Such is perception; such is the arising of perception; such is the ceasing of perception. Such are activities; such is the arising of activities; such is the ceasing of activities. Such is consciousness; such is the arising of consciousness; such is the ceasing of consciousness.

Even thus practised and enlarged, brethren, does the perceiving of impermanence wear out all sensual lust, all lust for body, all desire for rebirth, wears out all ignorance, tears out all conceit of “I am”."

SN 3.157

Rise (samudayo) and fall (attha"ngamo) in suttas do not mean some kind of constant flickering, but arising and ceasing due to corresponding conditions (paticca samuppada), as described in Nibbedhika and other suttas:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
http://dhamma.ru/lib/paticcas.htm

In the Aahuneyya-vagga (AN 4.145) the detailed matrix of kinds of practice is given:

Six sense media
X
elements of dependent co-arising (media itself, viññaa.na, phassa, vedanaa, saññaa, sañсetanaa, ta.nhaa, vitakka, vicaara)
X
seven kinds of contemplation:
aniccanupassana, dukkhaanupassana, anattaanupassana, khayaanupassana, viraagaanupassana, nirodhaanupassana, pa.tinissaggaanupassana

So the meditator selects one od the sense media, one of the elements of dependent co-arising, and practices one of the seven kinds of contemplation.

The logic of the sequence of first three contemplations is described, for example, in
Cularahulovada sutta (MN 147) and Nandakovada sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

how is this to lead to release?


Very good question.

This is described in detail in Chachakka sutta, as a sequence:
aniccasañña (recognition of impermanence), anattasañña (of impersonality), pahānasañña (of abandoning), nibbidasañña (of disgust/disenchantment), virāgasañña (of dispassion), vimutti (release), ñāṇa (knowledge).

The consciousness in the result becomes non-stationed (appatiṭṭha), which leads to the cessation of conditioned arising (paticca-samuppada).
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby alan... » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:33 am

Dmytro wrote:Hi Alan,

alan... wrote:so am i looking at these things? the aggregates and what not?

how? just think: "form and how it's impermanent?" it feels like i'm just tossing information around that i already know. i've done this after jhana many times and i clearly see them as impermanent, not self, etc. is this all i'm to do?


Good questions.

Contemplation of impermanence refers to selective recognition of rise and fall of five aggregates:

"And in what way, brethren, does does the perceiving of impermanence wear out all sensual lust, all lust for body, all desire for rebirth, wears out all ignorance, tears out all conceit of “I am”?

It is by seeing: “Such is body; such is the arising of body; such is the ceasing of body. Such is feeling; such is the arising of feeling; such is the ceasing of feeling. Such is perception; such is the arising of perception; such is the ceasing of perception. Such are activities; such is the arising of activities; such is the ceasing of activities. Such is consciousness; such is the arising of consciousness; such is the ceasing of consciousness.

Even thus practised and enlarged, brethren, does the perceiving of impermanence wear out all sensual lust, all lust for body, all desire for rebirth, wears out all ignorance, tears out all conceit of “I am”."

SN 3.157

Rise (samudayo) and fall (attha"ngamo) in suttas do not mean some kind of constant flickering, but arising and ceasing due to corresponding conditions (paticca samuppada), as described in Nibbedhika and other suttas:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
http://dhamma.ru/lib/paticcas.htm

In the Aahuneyya-vagga (AN 4.145) the detailed matrix of kinds of practice is given:

Six sense media
X
elements of dependent co-arising (media itself, viññaa.na, phassa, vedanaa, saññaa, sañсetanaa, ta.nhaa, vitakka, vicaara)
X
seven kinds of contemplation:
aniccanupassana, dukkhaanupassana, anattaanupassana, khayaanupassana, viraagaanupassana, nirodhaanupassana, pa.tinissaggaanupassana

So the meditator selects one od the sense media, one of the elements of dependent co-arising, and practices one of the seven kinds of contemplation.

The logic of the sequence of first three contemplations is described, for example, in
Cularahulovada sutta (MN 147) and Nandakovada sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

how is this to lead to release?


Very good question.

This is described in detail in Chachakka sutta, as a sequence:
aniccasañña (recognition of impermanence), anattasañña (of impersonality), pahānasañña (of abandoning), nibbidasañña (of disgust/disenchantment), virāgasañña (of dispassion), vimutti (release), ñāṇa (knowledge).

The consciousness in the result becomes non-stationed (appatiṭṭha), which leads to the cessation of conditioned arising (paticca-samuppada).



okay thanks. how exactly do we contemplate?

the suttas sound pretty straightforward: look at, for example, form and see how it is impermanent. this can be done by contemplating the way it's impermanence is described by the buddha in other suttas. for me the second i think "form" the impermanence of mine and all other form is just there. since i've studied these things so much i just see and feel the revelation really clearly, the same is true for the other aggregates. although i'm not sure if this is how they're to be contemplated.

although i've heard others say that one should watch certain things in the body and this will fulfill the entire series. for example the rise and fall of the abdomen will fulfill some of them. for me watching this for many years with no other method did not make me realize ANYTHING AT ALL! it just quieted my mind and i watched my abdomen. now i mentally verbalize contemplation and it's really helpful. however it's not quite like a firm realization other than when i've simply experienced first hand what i already had learned about.

so it seems there must be something in between. mindlessly watching my breath is useless. my mind is not going to turn that into a metaphor for all of reality. watching it with deliberate mental verbalization is useful but, again, not really a world transcending realization. more like cracking an egg into a pan using only one hand for the first time after being told how to do it. you really get it, when before you just understood it intellectually. i know the aggregates are impermanent when before i just understood that they were.

yet again, it seems there must be something else.
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby Samma » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:19 am

Speaking of eggs...reminded me of what to suggest. "The second step of right view, in which one focuses on events in terms of their role in the causal chain — fabricated, inconstant, stressful, and not-self — corresponds to the second stage of frames-of-reference meditation, in which one remains focused on the phenomenon of origination and passing away."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#part2-b
In other words, one develops insight into the process of origination and passing away by taking an active and sensitive role in the process, just as one learns about eggs by trying to cook with them, gathering experience from one's successes and failures in attempting increasingly difficult dishes.
The need for active participation in the practice explains why meditation must begin by mastering a particular technique, rather than passively watching whatever may arise in the present. The technique gives shape to one's present input into the present moment and makes one more sensitive to this aspect of this/that conditionality. It also provides an active context for appreciating mental qualities as they help or hinder one's success in the technique. Eventually, when one's sensitivity is sufficiently well developed, one can go beyond the technique to explore and master the process of causality as it functions in developing skillful qualities in the mind.
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby Dmytro » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:37 am

Hi Alan,

alan... wrote:okay thanks. how exactly do we contemplate?


An excellent question.

the suttas sound pretty straightforward: look at, for example, form and see how it is impermanent.


I'll quote the Ahuneyyavagga in toto.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anguttara Nikaya 7.95-622

Āhuneyyavaggo

Persons worthy of offerings

Translated by E. M. Hare

“Monks, there are these seven persons, worthy of offerings, worthy of gifts, worthy of oblations, the world’s peerless field for merit. What seven?

Monks, herein a monk abides seeing the impermanence of the eye, conscious of it, aware of it, at all times, continually, without a break, working it mentally, fathoming it by wisdom; and destroying the cankers, he enters and abides in the cankerless mind-emancipation … ; this, monks, is the first person worthy of offerings, worthy of gifts, worthy of oblations, the world’s peerless field for merit.

Again, consider one who likewise abides seeing the impermanence of the eye, conscious of it, aware of it, at all times, continually, without a break, working it mentally, fathoming it by wisdom; and for him the cankers’ ending and life’s ending are at the same time, not one before and one after; this, monks, is the second person worthy of offerings, worthy of gifts, worthy of oblations, the world’s peerless field for merit.

Again, consider one so abiding, seeing the impermanence of the eye, conscious of it, aware of it, at all times, continually, without a break, working it mentally, fathoming it by wisdom, who, destroying the five lower fetters, after an interval becomes completely cool [Non-returner -- antarāparinibbāyin]; this, monks, is the third person worthy of offerings, worthy of gifts, worthy of oblations, the world’s peerless field for merit.

Again, consider one so abiding, seeing the impermanence of the eye, conscious of it, aware of it, at all times, continually, without a break, working it mentally, fathoming it by wisdom, who, destroying the five lower fetters, after lessening his period, becomes completely cool [Non-returner -- upahaccaparinibbāyin]; this, monks, is the fourth person worthy of offerings, worthy of gifts, worthy of oblations, the world’s peerless field for merit.

Again, consider one so abiding, seeing the impermanence of the eye, conscious of it, aware of it, at all times, continually, without a break, working it mentally, fathoming it by wisdom, who, destroying the five lower fetters, without (karmic) residue becomes completely cool [Non-returner -- asankhāraparinibbāyin]; this, monks, is the fifth person worthy of offerings, worthy of gifts, worthy of oblations, the world’s peerless field for merit.

Again, consider one so abiding, seeing the impermanence of the eye, conscious of it, aware of it, at all times, continually, without a break, working it mentally, fathoming it by wisdom, who, destroying the five lower fetters, with some residue becomes completely cool [Non-returner -- sasankhāraparinibbāyin]; this, monks, is the sixth person worthy of offerings, worthy of gifts, worthy of oblations, the world’s peerless field for merit.

Again, consider one so abiding, seeing the impermanence of the eye, conscious of it, aware of it, at all times, continually, without a break, working it mentally, fathoming it by wisdom, who, destroying the five lower fetters, becomes part of the upward stream, bound for the highest (Akanitฺtฺha); this, monks, is the seventh person worthy of offerings, worthy of gifts, worthy of oblations, the world’s peerless field for merit.

Verily, monks, these seven persons are worthy of offerings, worthy of gifts, worthy of oblations, the world’s peerless field for merit.”

(Other worthy persons)

“Monks, there are these (other) persons, worthy of offerings, worthy of gifts, worthy of oblations, the world’s peerless field for merit.

Herein a monk abides seeing the impermanence … ill … no self … destruction … decay … dispassion … ending … renunciation (each in seven degrees of perfection) in respect of:

a)
The eye _ shapes _ visual consciousness _ visual contact
The ear _ sounds _ auditory consciousness _ auditory contact
The nose _ odours _ olfactory consciousness _ olfactory contact
The tongue _ tastes _ gustatory consciousness _ gustatory contact
The touch _ tangibles _ tactile consciousness _ tactile contact
The mind _ mental states _ representative cognition _ mental contact

b)
He abides, seeing impermanence … ill … no self … destruction … decay … dispassion … ending … renunciation (each in seven degrees of perfection) in respect of:

{ Feelings; Perceptions; Intentions; Cravings; Reflections; Deliberations }

sprung from

{ Visual contact; Auditory contact; Olfactory contact; Gustatory contact; Tactile contact; Mental contact. }

He abides, seeing impermanence … ill … no self … destruction … decay … dispassion … ending … renunciation (each in seven degrees of perfection) in respect of:

The body aggregate;
The feelings aggregate;
The perceptions aggregate;
The syntheses aggregate;
The consciousness aggregate.

(The Burmese MS. M. adds an Uddāna and observes that this chapter consists of 528 suttas. There appear, however, to be 8 x 6 x 10 suttas in respect of the six senses and their derivatives, and 8 x 5 suttas in respect of the five aggregates, therefore 520 in all. So 3,640 different persons, worthy of offerings, are stated. These recur in many places in the Pitฺakas. See Stcherbatsky’s “The Central Conception of Buddhism”.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Some phenomena continue for the long time, and it's impossible to observe their impermanence right now.
As explained in Sattathana sutta:

"From the origination of nutriment comes the origination of form. From the cessation of nutriment comes the cessation of form."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Which means that the body can arise only with food, and ceases to exist when food is absent.

So direct observation in present moment is applicable mostly to such areas:

“Katha~nca, bhikkhave, bhikkhu sampajaano hoti? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno viditaa vedanaa uppajjanti, viditaa upa.t.thahanti, viditaa abbhattha.m gacchanti. Viditaa vitakkaa uppajjanti, viditaa upa.t.thahanti, viditaa abbhattha.m gacchanti. Viditaa sa~n~naa uppajjanti, viditaa upa.t.thahanti, viditaa abbhattha.m gacchanti. Eva.m kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu sampajaano hoti.

"And how is a monk aware? There is the case where feelings are known to the monk as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. Thoughts are known to him as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. Perceptions are known to him as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. This is how a monk is aware."

(Sati sutta, SN 5:180)

which is a part of Conditioned Arising, as you can see on the diagram http://dhamma.ru/lib/paticcas.htm .

This awareness is possible without any samadhi.

The matter is further complicated by the fact that to make the consciousness non-stationed, you have to encompass, instead of a single feeling in the present, all feelings of the past, present and future, etc.:

In Alagaduppama sutta Buddha explains the recognition of impersonality (anatta):

"What do you think, monks — Is form constant or inconstant?" "Inconstant, lord." "And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?" "Stressful, lord." "And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant (anicca), stressful, subject to change (vipariṇāmadhamma) as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"

"No, lord."

"...Is feeling constant or inconstant?" "Inconstant, lord."...

"...Is perception constant or inconstant?" "Inconstant, lord."...

"...Are fabrications constant or inconstant?" "Inconstant, lord."...

"What do you think, monks — Is consciousness constant or inconstant?" "Inconstant, lord." "And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?" "Stressful, lord." "And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"

"No, lord."

"Thus, monks, any form whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: every form is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as: 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'

"Any feeling whatsoever...

"Any perception whatsoever...

"Any fabrications whatsoever...

"Any consciousness whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: every consciousness is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as: 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

To encompass such a wide scope, and to encompass the rise and fall not observable in the present, one needs a sound samadhi.
The samadhi will make possible to get the deep insight during the intense contemplation described in Ahuneyyavagga:

"Monks, herein a monk abides seeing the impermanence of the eye, conscious of it, aware of it, at all times, continually, without a break, working it mentally, fathoming it by wisdom; and destroying the cankers, he enters and abides in the cankerless mind-emancipation …"

The goal is not contemplation per-se, but the disenchantment, and eventual non-stationing of consciousness.

As Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo writes:

"If this doesn't lead to a sense of dispassion and detachment, go on to consider mental phenomena (nama), which are formless: vedana — the experiencing of feelings and moods, likes and dislikes; sañña — labels, names, allusions; sankhara — mental fashionings; and viññana — consciousness."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... html#craft

See also the instructions at:

http://measurelessmind.ca/panna.html

:anjali:
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby daverupa » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:00 am

alan... wrote:now i'm at a loss again, the commentary/visuddhimagga approach...


That's either an authoritative text for you, or it isn't, but if it is, get your meditation instructions from it (& that strata of texts) directly, otherwise you're going to find hiccups like this everywhere when holding those things against the Nikayas.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:17 am

polarbuddha101 wrote:
porpoise wrote:
I'm not sure I agree about the correlation with satipatthana because the first 3 tetrads look to me more like samatha practice.


The anapanasati sutta explicitly says that anapanasati brings satipatthana to its culmination. The 4 tetrads in anapanasati are the four satipatthanas: body, feelings, mind, dhammas.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


I understand what you're saying, but there doesn't seem to be a concensus view when one looks at the various commentaries and approaches. Some say that the first 3 tetrads are primarily concerned with jhana, others describe a progression from samatha to vipassana, and others say that the 4 tetrads are basically just the four satipatthanas with the breath providing continuity. :juggling:
Last edited by Spiny Norman on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: anapanasati first four tetrads

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:18 am

daverupa wrote:
porpoise wrote:Though in the 4 tetrads it looks like tranquillity is a basis for dhammavicaya in the 4 tetrad?


Sati is engaged as a precursor to any of the tetrads, which is the condition for dhammavicaya. This is required for tranquility as a factor for awakening, as opposed to some other state of relaxation which may or may not be a hindrance (sloth, torpor) or a sensual cord (kamaguna).


Thanks Dave, I'll give this some more thought. Possibly I'm making connections which aren't supported by the texts.
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