Ordination as Turning Away

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.

Ordination as Turning Away

Postby convivium » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:21 am

If so, from what?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby polarbuddha101 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:21 am

From greed, hatred, and delusion. From sensual passion and all the stuff that make's the householder's life a dusty path where it is hard to live the holy life utterly perfect and pure. Or you could say it's turning and running away from the 'real' world but that seems silly to me.
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby convivium » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:24 am

it's necessary to eat one meal a day and live with a bunch of skinny men in towels to turn away form greed, hatred and delusion? when you leave the monastery does that mean you're turning back to greed, hatred and delusion?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby polarbuddha101 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:32 am

It helps. But seriously, it only takes a cursory glance to see that the bhikkhu's life is more conducive towards a life entirely geared towards awakening and the abandoning of all craving.
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby kmath » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:03 am

You're also turning away from people. If you want to be a monk, you better get used to solitude.
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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby convivium » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:10 am

i thought "spiritual friends are the whole of the path."
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby James the Giant » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:33 am

convivium wrote:i thought "spiritual friends are the whole of the path."

My best spiritual friends are monastic friends. Or at least lay people who reside at the monastery for lengths of time.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:51 am

convivium wrote:i thought "spiritual friends are the whole of the path."
Yes, but spiritual friends (kalyāna mittā) are not buddies you hang out with for a chat, but teachers who instruct and admonish you to get off your butt and do some practice when appropriate, as well as encouraging you with kindness when you're feeling negative. A friend who encourages you to develop unwholesome deeds, words, and thoughts is a foe in the guise of a friend.

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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby cooran » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:07 am

Sadhu, Bhante!!

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby convivium » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:53 pm

To get off one's butt by getting on one's butt, literally. i think the loneliness could become bearable if i found a way to step into it and through it; having no responsibilities beyond not doing certain things, and meditating a lot with occasional manual labor makes this seem feasible. i'm not an extrovert so that helps. in certain monasteries i've been to, like abhayagiri, they made it clear that they were all intentionally friendly and outgoing with people visiting and between each other (back then i found that somewhat annoying, but now i can appreciate it more).
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:59 pm

Abhayagiri would be a good place to do a trial run as an Anāgārika. Ajahn Pasanno has a great deal of experience of training westerners, and I have a high regard for him. He was the abbot during my stay at Wat Pah Nanachat many moons ago.
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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby appicchato » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:56 pm

i think the loneliness could become bearable...


Going into this with the idea that one will be lonely (even if bearable) can be prohibitive from the git go...being lonely and being alone are two (way) different deals...and although we may share many things, in the end we all live in our own little universe...
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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby convivium » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:04 pm

That's a good point. Some people would say that if you don't have people (or a person) that see you for who you are (or at least relate to your experience in some intimate way) then you're missing out on a basic human need. In some cultures that's the best we can hope for in life, and anyone who doesn't want to be known in this way is just a boring person. Then again people say sex is a basic human need too. Of course, the goal isn't to be a basic human, is it?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby Gena1480 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:57 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala
is Wat Nana Chat a good place to give a try at being Anāgārika?
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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:36 pm

Gena1480 wrote:Bhikkhu Pesala
is Wat Nana Chat a good place to give a try at being Anāgārika?

Probably its still good, though its nearly 30 years since I stayed there. Others will be able to offer more current advice.

Living in NE Thailand has some benefits, and not too many downsides, though you will need to be especially sensitive to Thai culture.

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Re: Ordination as Turning Away

Postby convivium » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:34 am

Ajahn Passano is the abbot there and it's true that he is very advanced (Ajahn Amaro left to take over Ajahn Sumedho's place at Amaravati). They work a lot of the day there and they are often very emphatic and outgoing. Ajahn Yatiko is a really nice guy, and So is Ven Cunda. They're all nice enough. The vinaya is very strong there. The one meal a day is good. The trails are good. There was a big wait-list last time I checked.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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