the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Jerrod Lopes
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Jerrod Lopes » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:37 am

Ben,

Quite frankly I can't think of anything more substantial than my own experience. I think this is why the Buddha said that he was open to being questioned and encouraged people to try the path for themselves. Buddhism is, as you certainly know, an experiential path, not a revealed religion. If you don't take me at my word, so be it. Doesn't matter to me one way or another.

Come to think on it...maybe if the PhD that taught me about dying and the process of dying were to have explained it, you may have been happier/ more satisfied with the post?

What is with you guys on this site? Try meditating. Relax a bit. Not everything is meant to be an argument. Geez.

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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:36 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

greggorious
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby greggorious » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:28 pm

"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah

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Mr Man
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Mr Man » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:33 pm


greggorious
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby greggorious » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:45 pm

Read 'lessons from the light' by Kenneth Ring. Can explain things much better than I can.
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah

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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:01 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Mr Man
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Mr Man » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:05 pm


greggorious
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby greggorious » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:20 pm

Alex, I don't care if it rejects a Buddhist teaching. I don't agree with every single Buddhist teaching there is.
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah

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kirk5a
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby kirk5a » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:21 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:06 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

greggorious
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby greggorious » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:08 pm

If we're talking common sense then many people will argue that believing in re-birth isn't common sense.
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah

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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:14 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Spiny Norman
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Spiny Norman » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:33 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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beeblebrox
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby beeblebrox » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:29 pm


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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:01 pm

Most of the process of seeing has nothing to do with the eye. Otherswise, how do you explain what you "see" in your mind, while your eyes are closed? Add to that all of your filters due to expectations, previous experiences, education, training, fears, desires, preferences, etc., and consider how accurate your vision is versus your imagination. :namaste:

Now, consider a mind free of all filters as described above, what has been called "The Luminous Mind", how much better, more capable would vision be with such a mind?
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:25 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:07 pm

Modern understanding of how perceptive systems work shows that the brain is "plastic", more so than ever previously thought. This neuroplasticity does in fact allow and facilitate heightened touch to replace hearing to some degree, particularly with regard to rythm, and to some minor degree, sight. Sections of the human brain, which have been identified as related to sight communicate and take over fed by inputs from other neuro-receptors. Micro and now Nano surgery will soon allow those who have lost their sight, and those born without it to receive electronic implants into the brain, which will replace eyes, rods and cones, eventually no doubt with instrumentation, which will exceed human capabilities just as we developed microscopes and telescopes over the last hundred years or so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity

http://gizmodo.com/5910050/the-solar-po ... ores-sight

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/ ... ight-blind

So, what was believed in the past, even 2500 years ago is no longer representative of current knowleged in the realm of neuro-science.
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Spiny Norman
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Spiny Norman » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:39 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:29 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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manas
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby manas » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:33 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."


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