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Ajahn Brahm for sale? - Page 10 - Dhamma Wheel

Ajahn Brahm for sale?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Mr Man
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Mr Man » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:53 am

Charity has now actually become a commodity and a business (or was it always?) as has the propagation of dhamma. Monks are seen a teachers of systems and personalities as "retreat leaders" and "talk givers" ahead of being mendicatnts. "Ajahn Brahm for sale" is a reflection of all of us. In my opinion it is profane and it really is not a question of me being humourliss or a finger wager.

Ajahn Brahmali said "to me this is just a clever and fun way of raising money. That it is clever is clear from the level of interest, even controversy, that the idea has already created". Does the BSWA thrive on controversy?

Pragmatic Buddhism?

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retrofuturist
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:55 am

:goodpost:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Cittasanto
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:15 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:16 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Dan74
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Dan74 » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:19 am

_/|\_

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Cittasanto
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:48 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:52 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:33 am


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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:38 pm

Hello Cittasanto

I'm not even going to respond to your question regarding acuracy. If I would deny it you would argue that Ajahn Brahm is prostituting his time, only causing bad kamma for you.

You seem to be very focused on wether your vinaya interpretation is correct or not. What is the consequence of it being correct? Do you have any power to, through this forum, change the assessment of Ajahn Brahm's behaviour by his Sangha? There is a thing in the western justice, that started in England, that is called presumption of innocence.

My intention here was to defend Ajahn Brahm and to try to cool down the situation. Clearly I've failed on the second part, so I will try not to post here anymore.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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Cittasanto
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:43 pm

Hi Modus.Ponens
Like I have said previously, I would far prefer to be corrected, the errors pointed out, but if you think assertions about malighning or ill-intent and whatever else has been infered to people who disagree is in his defence then I am sorry but it is not. we can see a difference & issues where others don't so if it is "perfectly fine to question whether what Ajahn Brahm is doing is appropriate or even in accordance with the vinaya" as Ajahn Brahmali said, then defending him would be to correct and point out the errors, not inferring what is not there, as has happened from the start of this thread.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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pilgrim
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby pilgrim » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:48 pm

Clearly we see the conservatives and the liberals. :thinking:

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Mr Man
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Mr Man » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:55 pm


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Mr Man
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Mr Man » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:02 pm

There is the possibility that Ajahn Brahm made a mistake or has been badly advised or has not been open to advice or advice has not been forthcoming. It is another kind of idealism that would not be open to that possibility.

As Ajahn Brahmali said "Just to make the obvious clear: it is of course perfectly fine to question whether what Ajahn Brahm is doing is appropriate". Also worth noting that Ajahn Bramali said "I am pretty sure this will be the one and only time he does such a thing.". It would be okay or possible for Ajahn Brahm to make a bad decision wouldn't it?

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Anagarika
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Anagarika » Wed May 08, 2013 9:01 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed May 08, 2013 10:14 pm


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James the Giant
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby James the Giant » Thu May 09, 2013 12:29 am

Maybe if someone is going to post where the auction is at, the name of the bidder could be removed? Since it's on a private website and all.

EDIT: thanks for removing the name. The bidders might not mind, but it just seems better. Cheers :anjali:
Last edited by James the Giant on Thu May 09, 2013 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 09, 2013 1:40 am


pegembara
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby pegembara » Thu May 09, 2013 6:56 am

Who speaks the truth?

Two monks were arguing about the temple flag waving in the wind. One said, "The flag moves." The other said, "The wind moves." They argued back and forth but could not agree.
The Sixth Ancestor said, "Gentlemen! It is not the wind that moves; it is not the flag that moves; it is your mind that moves." The two monks were struck with awe.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Kusala
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Kusala » Thu May 09, 2013 8:16 am

I wonder if this post applies to Ajahn Brahm :thinking: http://sdhammika.blogspot.com/2010/03/p ... hamma.html
Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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Paribbajaka
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Paribbajaka » Thu May 09, 2013 6:12 pm

To be honest I find it funny that this is such a big issue. I support and attend several Lao Theravada temples in my home area, and I consitently see monks holding their own money, being directly donated money by the lay community, riding in and driving cars, and hanging around listening to music. My primary teacher not only keeps food overnight, but has TWO refrigerators to accomodate what he has. It is my impression based on researcha nd experience that this is not a local phenomenon but typical of modern monks.

Why is no one decrying their vinaya offenses? Why is this so accepted and yet a western monk making a bit of a joke (for a good cause) is being put under such scrutiny?

This is obviously in addition to the widespread market of monks selling amulets, selling blessed bracelets, telling fortunes and giving lucky lottery numbers, etc. etc. etc.
May all beings be happy!


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