Developing faith (Saddha)

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Developing faith (Saddha)

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:57 pm

Hello all

I'm focusing on developing faith (Saddha) in my practice and would like to know 1) what it means for you 2) how you gained or developed it and 3) how it manifests in your life and practice.

Thanks

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Re: Developing faith (Saddha)

Postby marc108 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:49 pm

This is a good question, something that I've been thinking about a lot. Should be some interesting replies here :)

1) Saddha for me means confidence in the Buddha and his teachings. That awakening is possible and the path laid down by the Buddha is a viable way to get there... that the practice gives fruit, visible 'here and now', and we dont need to wait until some other far off time, place or lifetime in the future.

2) I think I originally developed some based on the meditation teachings, how accurate and skillful they were based on my meditation experience prior to finding Buddhism. Another big one for me was seeing how some of the great masters conducted themselves, how they responded when put in challenging or difficult situations. Bhante G, Ajahn Geoff, Bhikkhu Bodhi and Noah Levine are 4 that I can think of specifically who's actions gave me confidence that my own awakening was possible. Also finally, and most importantly, was being able to see the fruits of practice in myself after a few years.

3) I think for me it manifests in 'long term' commitment to the practice. Life long commitment to the 8 Fold Path isn't always cake and cookies lol... in my experience it's mostly NOT. it's usually super difficult and might not effect our 'real world' lives in the ways we would necessarily want. It takes a lot of faith to live the practice in the world we live in.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
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Re: Developing faith (Saddha)

Postby Prasadachitta » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:38 pm

"Faith, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for faith? 'Suffering' should be the reply.
Upanisa Sutta: Prerequisiteshttp://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.023.than.html


I find that dwelling upon the existential realities of loss and aimlessness together with the qualities attributed to the path and goal of Buddhist Awakening is fertile ground for the arising of Saddha.

Metta

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"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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Re: Developing faith (Saddha)

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:54 am

I felt confidence was more about things like 'the trains will run on time'. They are low risk issues. Trust would be higher risk as in trusting a surgeon with your life. Faith is for the highest risk issues- do I trust samsara, my salvation with a teaching of a man or God and what kind of man (in this case) would that have to be?
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Re: Developing faith (Saddha)

Postby Spiny Norman » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:19 am

rowyourboat wrote:I'm focusing on developing faith (Saddha) in my practice and would like to know 1) what it means for you 2) how you gained or developed it and 3) how it manifests in your life and practice.


For me it's primarily about faith and confidence in methods of practice, particularly the practice of mindfulness.
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Re: Developing faith (Saddha)

Postby perkele » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:43 pm

rowyourboat wrote:I felt confidence was more about things like 'the trains will run on time'. They are low risk issues. Trust would be higher risk as in trusting a surgeon with your life. Faith is for the highest risk issues- do I trust samsara, my salvation with a teaching of a man or God and what kind of man (in this case) would that have to be?
A good point.
Why do I trust the Buddha and his teachings?
Prasadachitta wrote:
"Faith, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for faith? 'Suffering' should be the reply.
Upanisa Sutta: Prerequisiteshttp://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.023.than.html
Yes, I think suffering was really necessary for that. To open up. In deep suffering, with no way out, one opens up, looking for what might be helpful, looking with less prejudice for what is really helpful. And that's it. Faith comes through understanding suffering:
Prasadachitta wrote:I find that dwelling upon the existential realities of loss and aimlessness together with the qualities attributed to the path and goal of Buddhist Awakening is fertile ground for the arising of Saddha.
As the Buddha taught, the truth of suffering has to be understood. I think that's where solid faith really comes from. Otherwise one can't really look for a way out. Without really looking for a way out one cannot have faith in a clear way out.

Okay, so much intelligent talking but still no clear answer to the question: Why do I trust the Buddha and his teachings?

I think there's no way to explain that theoretically.

Go and suffer deeply. And look for a way out, for what is really helpful, trying to understand your situation in all its depth, look sincerely, search and search...
And you will end up with the Buddha's teachings. :P
Those who are ashamed of what they should be ashamed of, and are not ashamed of what they should not be ashamed of -- upholding true views, they do not go to states of woe.
(suggested by SamBodhi)
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Re: Developing faith (Saddha)

Postby SDC » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:20 pm

rowyourboat wrote:1) what it means for you


Appreciate and value what the Buddha accomplished.

rowyourboat wrote:2) how you gained or developed it


By understanding what the Buddha accomplished.

rowyourboat wrote:3) how it manifests in your life and practice.


Very important for me to keep in mind. Helps keep me focused on the goal. The more it is appreciated and valued the easier it is to move in that direction.
Through many of samsara’s births I hasten seeking, finding not the builder of this house - pain is birth again, again. O builder of this house you’re seen, you shall not build a house again, all your beams have given away, rafters of the ridge decayed, mind to the unconditioned gone, exhaustion of craving has it reached.(Dhp - 153, 154)
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Re: Developing faith (Saddha)

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:27 pm

Faith it seems can grow. How can it be like what Ven Ananda has here:?


The power of visionary faith over skepticism is exemplified in An 3.8, a passage which more closely resembles in tone and quality many of the later Mahāyāna sutras. Buddha extols Ānanda over the skeptic Udayi when Ānanda is awed and overwhelmed by the power of the Buddha. Ānanda had asked the Blessed One how far his voice would reach in the universe. The Lord had answered that the Enlightened Ones were immeasurable and could reach further than a thousandfold world system (with a thousand suns, a thousand heavens, and a thousand brahma worlds), even further than a three-thousandfold world system. They could penetrate all those worlds with their shining splendor and reach all beings living there with their voice.

Ānanda was delighted with this description, so all-encompassing and transcending all horizons, and he exclaimed: "How fortunate I am, that I have such an almighty, powerful master!" Udayi objected: "What good does it do to you brother Ānanda, that your master is almighty and powerful?" The Buddha immediately took sides with Ānanda with the following words:

Not so, Udayi, not so, Udayi! Should Ananda die without being fully liberated; he would be king of the gods seven times because of the purity of his heart, or be king of the Indian subcontinent seven times. But Udayi, Ananda will experience final liberation in this very life.[13]
(Sorry I don't have the source).
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Re: Developing faith (Saddha)

Postby vishuroshan » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:22 am

When the truly good people in the world show compassion, they will first show compassion to people of conviction, and not to people without conviction. When visiting, they first visit people of conviction, and not people without conviction. When accepting gifts, they will first accept those from people with conviction, and not from people without conviction. When teaching the Dhamma, they will first teach those with conviction, and not those without conviction. A person of conviction, on the break-up of the body, after death, will arise in a good destination, the heavenly world. For a lay person, these are the five rewards of conviction. (SADDHA DEVELOPS WHEN ONE DEVELOPS EIGHTFOLD PATH)

(SADDHA SUTTA)
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