Magick and Buddhism

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby danieLion » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:54 am

Vincenzi wrote:
daverupa wrote:It would be impossible for me, now, to draw down the moon or do a Tarot spread or create a circle or any of that silliness because none of it is based on right view and all of it aggrandizes the self in one way or another, as I see it all now in retrospect.

Even when events occurred which seemed momentous, it's all with contact as condition...

:meditate:


making sigils is useful for understanding the mindstream.

Indeed. Here's some symbol's I've seen around here.

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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby PadmaPhala » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:14 am

sorry to the OP =P

i helped to make the first one you posted =)

but by sigil i meant something more like this:
Image
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby convivium » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:20 am

:zzz:
"This is Nanda's devotion to wakefulness: There is the case where Nanda during the day, sitting & pacing back & forth, cleanses his mind of any qualities that would hold the mind in check. During the first watch of the night,[1] sitting & pacing back & forth, he cleanses his mind of any qualities that would hold the mind in check. During the second watch of the night,[2] reclining on his right side, he takes up the lion's posture, one foot placed on top of the other, mindful, alert, with his mind set on getting up.[3] During the last watch of the night,[4] sitting & pacing back & forth, he cleanses his mind of any qualities that would hold the mind in check. This is Nanda's devotion to wakefulness.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby Beautiful Breath » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:55 am

Harry Potter :rofl:
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby Beautiful Breath » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:56 am

danieLion wrote:
Beautiful Breath wrote:...yeah I invited experiences from other 'Buddhist' traditions - that's quite clear from my initial question. It wasn't meant to include ALL other religions....good grief...!!!
That's your fault for not specifying it in your OP, and it was not at all clear from initial question. We're not mind readers! And you did not indicate in any way that it was to be restricted to Buddhist traditions--and you're still being ambigous by putting apostrophe quotes around the term 'Buddhist."

Magick, especially from Crowley's perspective, utilizes many Buddhist methods, especially Satipatthana.

If it really bugs you I'm sure the moderators would make it a separate topic. But don't pretend like you didn't open the door, because that was uour doing, not ours.


Oooer! Someone needs to read more carfully and sit longer! :rofl:
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby Beautiful Breath » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:08 am

Ok Ok.... I know enough about the Western Esoteric Traditions to say that I am really sorry but, comparing Crowley, Thelema, OTO etc to Theravada is without doubt the most ridiculous thing I have heard in over 20 years.

Seriously lets remain moderately real.

Magick may well be a perfectly legitimate thamatagurtic system and I have little doubt people thrive on it. But come on..... Chalk n Cheese...! Its hysterical :rofl:

This thread has gone way beyond credible now...I hope it has limited exposure outside this forum thats for sure!

There will no doubt be some bruised egos and bitchy little jibes responding to this - but thats ok. I'm off outta here...there's REAL work to be done!
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby danieLion » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:21 pm

convivium wrote:
:zzz:
"This is Nanda's devotion to wakefulness: There is the case where Nanda during the day, sitting & pacing back & forth, cleanses his mind of any qualities that would hold the mind in check. During the first watch of the night,[1] sitting & pacing back & forth, he cleanses his mind of any qualities that would hold the mind in check. During the second watch of the night,[2] reclining on his right side, he takes up the lion's posture, one foot placed on top of the other, mindful, alert, with his mind set on getting up.[3] During the last watch of the night,[4] sitting & pacing back & forth, he cleanses his mind of any qualities that would hold the mind in check. This is Nanda's devotion to wakefulness.

You seem to have some kind of attention deficit. This is not the icon for sleep. It's the icon for bored. The devil's in the details. Wake up! Pay attention!!
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby danieLion » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:28 pm

Beautiful Breath wrote:
danieLion wrote:
Beautiful Breath wrote:...yeah I invited experiences from other 'Buddhist' traditions - that's quite clear from my initial question. It wasn't meant to include ALL other religions....good grief...!!!
That's your fault for not specifying it in your OP, and it was not at all clear from initial question. We're not mind readers! And you did not indicate in any way that it was to be restricted to Buddhist traditions--and you're still being ambigous by putting apostrophe quotes around the term 'Buddhist."

Magick, especially from Crowley's perspective, utilizes many Buddhist methods, especially Satipatthana.

If it really bugs you I'm sure the moderators would make it a separate topic. But don't pretend like you didn't open the door, because that was uour doing, not ours.


Oooer! Someone needs to read more carfully and sit longer! :rofl:

Every post you make augments your inchoherence.

AND YOU ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO JUDGE MY OR ANYONE'S READING/RETENTION OR MEDITATION SKILLS!!!
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby convivium » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:34 pm

yeah i do.. :zzz:
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby danieLion » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:36 pm

Beautiful Breath wrote:Ok Ok.... I know enough about the Western Esoteric Traditions to say that I am really sorry but, comparing Crowley, Thelema, OTO etc to Theravada is without doubt the most ridiculous thing I have heard in over 20 years.

Seriously lets remain moderately real.

Magick may well be a perfectly legitimate thamatagurtic system and I have little doubt people thrive on it. But come on..... Chalk n Cheese...! Its hysterical :rofl:

This thread has gone way beyond credible now...I hope it has limited exposure outside this forum thats for sure!

There will no doubt be some bruised egos and bitchy little jibes responding to this - but thats ok. I'm off outta here...there's REAL work to be done!


This is tantamount to name-calling which is inidicative of your dogmatism and knowledge deficit. Exploring relationships is not comparison. You're inchoherence is now compounded by your onstentation. Did you even look at the background links I provided for Mike? Did you even look at Retro's link to getting the most out of your posts? If this thread actualy ends up going nowhere, the lion's share of culpability is yours.
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby convivium » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:39 pm

perkele wrote:I don't practice masturbation anymore.
The reason being that it kind of ruins concentration.

i don't need practice :quote: i'm already a master :pig:
but seriously, if you've been able to quit mastrubating then that's progreess on the path as far as theravada is concerned. :thumbsup:
Last edited by convivium on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby convivium » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:41 pm

This is tantamount to name-calling which is inidicative of your dogmatism and knowledge deficit.
:hug:
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:38 pm

Hi Daniel,
danieLion wrote:This is tantamount to name-calling which is inidicative of your dogmatism and knowledge deficit. Exploring relationships is not comparison. You're inchoherence is now compounded by your onstentation. Did you even look at the background links I provided for Mike? Did you even look at Retro's link to getting the most out of your posts? If this thread actualy ends up going nowhere, the lion's share of culpability is yours.

I read some of your links, and as I said, it's clear that you're not talking about things that have much to do with Theravada Buddhism. If you want to compare and discuss it in Open Dhamma, that's fine, some might have some interest in it.

All:
This thread contains a lot of name calling, including referring to "knowledge deficits" in members, and splashing about snoring icons to suggest boredom. If members are bored, the best strategy is to ignore the posts, or, indeed the whole thread. If you wish to participate, please respect others and refrain from name calling.

:anjali:
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby danieLion » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:15 am

mikenz66 wrote:I read some of your links, and as I said, it's clear that you're not talking about things that have much to do with Theravada Buddhism.
Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe you didn't read enough or carefully engough or read them with a preconceived or otherwise closed mind? Maybe that's what you did. Maybe not. Only you would know for sure.

At least, having adopted the Buddhist Skandhas as the basis of my classification, I was bound in mere courtesy to give the Buddhist doctrine as I have heard it from the one man who really understands it, Bhikkhu Ananda Metteyya.

-Crowley, Source (Ch. XIX, penultimate sentence)


Buddhism is a logical development of the observed facts; whoso is with me so far is Sammaditthi, and has taken the first step on the Noble Eightfold Path.

Let him aspire to knowledge, and the Second Step is under his feet.

The rest lies with Research.

Aum ! I take my refuge holy in the Light and Peace of Buddh.

Aum ! I take my refuge, slowly working out His Law of Good.

Aum ! I take my refuge lowly in His Pitying Brotherhood.

-Crowley, "Science and Buddhism" (last six paragraphs; include as an appendix to The Sword of Song).


18. I think this is a good opportunity to make a little digression in favour of Mahasatipatthana. This practice was recommended by the Buddha in very special terms, and it is the only one of which he speaks so highly. He told his disciples that if they only stuck to it, sooner or later they would reach full attainment. The practice consists of an analysis of the universe in terms of consciousness. You begin by taking some very simple and regular bodily exercise, such as the movement of the body in walking, or the movements of the lungs in breathing. You keep on noting what happens: 'I am breathing out; I am breathing in; I am holding my breath,' as the case may be. Quite without warning, one is appalled by the shock of the discovery that what you have been thinking is not true. You have no right to say: 'I am breathing in.' All that you really know is that there is a breathing in.

19. You therefore change your note, and you say: 'There is a breathing in; there is a breathing out,' and so on. And very soon, if you practise assiduously, you get another shock. You have no right to say that there is a breathing. All you know is that there is a sensation of that kind. Again you change your conception of your observation, and one day make the discovery that the sensation has disappeared. All you know is that there is perception of a sensation of breathing in or breathing out. Continue, and that is once more discovered to be an illusion. What you find is that there is a tendency to perceive a sensation of the natural phenomena.

-Crowley, 8 Lectures on Yoga (Second Part, Yoga for Yellowbellies, Third Lecture)


Crowley linked [The Master of the Temple grade]...with the Four Formless States [arupajhana]of Buddhism....

Crowley named as a condition of [the Ispissimus] grade the trance Nirodha-samapatti [cessation of feeling and perception].

Source: Wikipedia

Seems to me like this has a lot to do with Theravada.
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby polarbuddha101 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:22 am

Sure, Crowley talks about buddhism. But aren't Crowley's thoughts and his philosophy just another heap of words and concepts to throw on top of the Buddha's teaching thereby obscuring one's ability to just look at them at face value or if face value is not possible to look at them through one less filter? I mean, would you really use Crowley as an even somewhat reliable guide to understanding what the Buddha taught?
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby danieLion » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:24 am

mikenz66 wrote:
All:
This thread contains a lot of name calling, including referring to "knowledge deficits" in members, and splashing about snoring icons to suggest boredom. If members are bored, the best strategy is to ignore the posts, or, indeed the whole thread. If you wish to participate, please respect others and refrain from name calling.

"Knowledge deficit" is an accurate description. One should not take it personally. For instance, if someone was to say to me, you have a knowledge deficit in brain surgery, I would not take it personally. It's true. I do.

I used the snoring icon once, a far cry from "splashing about." And the icon does not suggest boredom, it means boredom. When you hover your cursor over it, it says "bored." And I did not use it as an insult. When I am boring someone, I prefer it if they let me know. Otherwise I am being insenstive and impolite. It is a basic rule of adult discussion not to bore or let others bore you.
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby danieLion » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:31 am

polarbuddha101 wrote:Sure, Crowley talks about buddhism. But aren't Crowley's thoughts and his philosophy just another heap of words and concepts to throw on top of the Buddha's teaching thereby obscuring one's ability to just look at them at face value or if face value is not possible to look at them through one less filter? I mean, would you really use Crowley as an even somewhat reliable guide to understanding what the Buddha taught?

Would you prefer I use the heap of words you just used in this post or do you think your ideas about Buddhism come with less layers of ignorance than Crowley's? What specific objections do you have to using Crowley as a reliable guide to Buddhism? Or, are you assuming beforehand , based on hearsay, that he couldn't possibly be reliable?

Crowley, like the Buddha, insisted that the only ultimately reliable guide to either of their teachings was yourself through your own experience.

Have you gone beyond merely glancing at any of the citations I've provided--have you even done that?
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby polarbuddha101 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:09 am

danieLion wrote:
polarbuddha101 wrote:Sure, Crowley talks about buddhism. But aren't Crowley's thoughts and his philosophy just another heap of words and concepts to throw on top of the Buddha's teaching thereby obscuring one's ability to just look at them at face value or if face value is not possible to look at them through one less filter? I mean, would you really use Crowley as an even somewhat reliable guide to understanding what the Buddha taught?

Would you prefer I use the heap of words you just used in this post or do you think your ideas about Buddhism come with less layers of ignorance than Crowley's? What specific objections do you have to using Crowley as a reliable guide to Buddhism? Or, are you assuming beforehand , based on hearsay, that he couldn't possibly be reliable?

Crowley, like the Buddha, insisted that the only ultimately reliable guide to either of their teachings was yourself through your own experience.

Have you gone beyond merely glancing at any of the citations I've provided--have you even done that?


I was referring to the heap of other stuff that Crowley writes about. Things like thelema and magick and egyptian gods etc. Suffice it to say I think the man's mind was all over the place which is why he lived such an interesting and haphazard life. If I were to describe him in two words, "mostly harmless."
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby BlackBird » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:26 am

I would call into question the skillfulness of your approach to this Danielion. I'm not sure whether you follow the Buddha's teachings or primarily just Crowley's, but The Buddha at least - I don't think he would have spoken favourably about some of this talk.

"Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people. Which five?

"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will."

- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby Dan74 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:39 am

danieLion wrote: It is a basic rule of adult discussion not to bore or let others bore you.


I was bored with your posts multiple number of times, daniel and most likely you (and others) with mine. The loss may or may not be ours, but in any case I don't think this qualifies for constructive feedback.

But since you are into feedback, maybe you should take the last few posts directed to you on board.
_/|\_
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