Finding The Visuddhimagga XVII.28 translated into sanskrit.

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Finding The Visuddhimagga XVII.28 translated into sanskrit.

Postby Emmet » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:22 am

I am looking for a translation of a passage in The Visuddhimagga it is in the section XIII.28. So far I can have only found it in roman lettering. The part of the passage I want reads "The mental and material are really here. But there is no humanity to be found. For it is void and merely fashioned like a doll. Just suffering piled up from grass and sticks."

It would be extremely valuable to me personally to have the translation, which I am finding very hard to find. And I would also be extremely grateful to anyone who could point me in the right direction in terms of finding it.

Thanks :)
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Re: Finding The Visuddhimagga XVII.28 translated into sanskrit.

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:35 am

Hi Emmet,

I don't understand the question.

The Visuddhimagga was composed in Pali (not Sanskrit). Do you mean that you can find the Pali for that passage, but using Roman letters, and you want it written in some Indian script instead? I'm not sure if it is known what script it was originally written down in...

Mike
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Re: Finding The Visuddhimagga XVII.28 translated into sanskrit.

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:39 am

You must mean Devanagari script for a tatoo or such?

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/devanagari.htm
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Finding The Visuddhimagga XVII.28 translated into sanskrit.

Postby Ben » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:54 am

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Emmet,

I don't understand the question.

The Visuddhimagga was composed in Pali (not Sanskrit). Do you mean that you can find the Pali for that passage, but using Roman letters, and you want it written in some Indian script instead? I'm not sure if it is known what script it was originally written down in...

Mike


Hi Mike
I think it might be an ancient precursor of sinhalese script. My understanding is that early Buddhist manuscripts are extremely rare and the earliest extent copy may have already been transribed into a different script from its original.
Perhaps some of our Pali scholars can comment.
Cheers

Ben
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Re: Finding The Visuddhimagga XVII.28 translated into sanskrit.

Postby Emmet » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:59 am

Yes sorry, I probably mean in Devangari script. Just any script it was in before being translated into Roman lettering or outright English.
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Re: Finding The Visuddhimagga XVII.28 translated into sanskrit.

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:05 am

Emmet wrote:Yes sorry, I probably mean in Devangari script. Just any script it was in before being translated into Roman lettering or outright English.

The Roman lettering isn't a "translation" any more than pinyin is a "translation" of Chinese.
"Transliteration" might be the word you need...

If you go to this page, on the Site that TiltBillings mentioned:
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/pali.htm
you'll see a one-to-one correspondence between the Devanāgarī alphabet used for Pāli and the Roman alphabet used for Pāli (in some cases there are clusters of two Roman letters and/or diacritical marks).

Mike
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Re: Finding The Visuddhimagga XVII.28 translated into sanskrit.

Postby Emmet » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:14 am

Ok then. I stand corrected. I will be extra careful to use the term "transliteration" in the future.
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Re: Finding The Visuddhimagga XVII.28 translated into sanskrit.

Postby piotr » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:53 am

Hi Emmet,

Here it is.

    Roman:
    ‘‘Nāmañca rūpañca idhatthi saccato,
    Na hettha satto manujo ca vijjati;
    Suññaṃ idaṃ yantamivābhisaṅkhataṃ,
    Dukkhassa puñjo tiṇakaṭṭhasādiso’’ti.

    Devanagari:
    ‘‘नामञ्‍च रूपञ्‍च इधत्थि सच्‍चतो,
    न हेत्थ सत्तो मनुजो च विज्‍जति।
    सुञ्‍ञं इदं यन्तमिवाभिसङ्खतं,
    दुक्खस्स पुञ्‍जो तिणकट्ठसादिसो’’ति॥
Last edited by piotr on Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
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Re: Finding The Visuddhimagga XVII.28 translated into sanskrit.

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:56 am

Making it a bit larger:

‘‘नामञ्‍च रूपञ्‍च इधत्थि सच्‍चतो,
न हेत्थ सत्तो मनुजो च विज्‍जति।
सुञ्‍ञं इदं यन्तमिवाभिसङ्खतं,
दुक्खस्स पुञ्‍जो तिणकट्ठसादिसो’’ति॥


Just a note: the quotation marks are not really part of the Devanagari script.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Finding The Visuddhimagga XVII.28 translated into sanskrit.

Postby Emmet » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:44 am

Wow, thanks for the quick reply!

You're a legend!
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Re: Finding The Visuddhimagga XVII.28 translated into sanskrit.

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:56 am

Smooches to piotr.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Finding The Visuddhimagga XVII.28 translated into sanskrit.

Postby piotr » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:25 pm

Hi,

No problem! :thumbsup: Actually it wasn't hard to find since http://www.tipitaka.org provides canonical and paracanonical texts in many scripts.
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