Emptiness and the Abhidhamma

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries

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Beautiful Breath
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Emptiness and the Abhidhamma

Postby Beautiful Breath » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:05 pm

Hi,

Does the Abbidhamma disagree with the Prasangika school regarding the ultimate nature if all phenomena?

BB....

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Ayu
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Re: Emptiness and tge Abbhidhamma

Postby Ayu » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:47 pm

Seems to me there is no real accordance between Abhidhamma (Theravada) and the Prasangikha-Madhyamika-school (Mahayana).

Ashin Janakabhivamsa said here: http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/Abhi ... amattha.29
Paramattha is a Pali term, which means truth in the highest sense. The ultimate are those which are immutable, [Parama + attha = immutable + intrinsic nature]. The four ultimates (paramattha) are mind or consciousness (citta), mental factors (cetasika), matter (rupa) and the only absolute reality (Nibbána).


And the prasangikha-school said "There is no ultimate thruth except emptyness". Because all these things, even Nibbana, are existing only in condition to something. So nothing is existing intrinsic.
But this is expressed too shortly to understand it right. Sorry.

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Re: Emptiness and tge Abbhidhamma

Postby Nyana » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:34 pm

Beautiful Breath wrote:Does the Abbidhamma disagree with the Prasangika school regarding the ultimate nature if all phenomena?

The Pāli Abhidhammapiṭaka is compatible with the Madhyamaka view of the ultimate. Of course, one needs to have a basic comprehension of Madhyamaka in order to understand this.

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Re: Emptiness and tge Abbhidhamma

Postby convivium » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:54 pm

The Pāli Abhidhammapiṭaka is compatible with the Madhyamaka view of the ultimate. Of course, one needs to have a basic comprehension of Madhyamaka in order to understand this.
i tend to agree with this, at least on a certain reading.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

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Re: Emptiness and the Abhidhammal

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:31 pm

Hi BB,

I suggest taking a careful look at:
Abhidhamma Studies (Buddhist Psychology) by Ven. Nyanaponika Thera
http://www.buddhistelibrary.org/en/thum ... hp?album=2

See, for example, the extract I quoted here:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13509&start=20#p201090

:anjali:
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Re: Emptiness and tge Abbhidhamma

Postby Beautiful Breath » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:24 pm

The Pāli Abhidhammapiṭaka is compatible with the Madhyamaka view of the ultimate. Of course, one needs to have a basic comprehension of Madhyamaka in order to understand this.


Hi,

I have a good grasp of the Prasangika school over the last 20 years or so. I'm really interested in know more re this. Do you have any links I may find out more?

BB...

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Re: Emptiness and tge Abbhidhamma

Postby Nyana » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:15 am

Beautiful Breath wrote:I have a good grasp of the Prasangika school over the last 20 years or so. I'm really interested in know more re this. Do you have any links I may find out more?

What I said above requires differentiating between (1) the contents of the Pāli Abhidhammapiṭaka, and (2) the Pāli commentarial (Aṭṭhakathā) and sub-commentarial (Tīkā), etc., interpretations of the Abhidhammapiṭaka and the Suttapiṭaka. The vast majority of available resources and studies on the Abhidhamma don't make this differentiation. Therefore, to do so you would need to read the Abhidhammapiṭaka texts themselves and form your own conclusions.

The Abhidhammapiṭaka texts don't explicitly make statements that entail metaphysical realism. The Abhidhammapiṭaka doesn't even refer to conditioned phenomena as paramattha dhammā or paramattha sabhāva. The former does occur once in the Kathāvatthu but it's hardly a ringing endorsement for how this notion of paramattha dhamma later came to be applied and interpreted.

However, the Pāli commentaries and other post-canonical treatises are closer to Vaibhāṣika tenets in many respects than even to Sautrāntika tenets (e.g. in the Visuddhimagga Buddhaghosa explicitly argues against nibbāna being just a designation). Therefore, one would be rather hard-pressed if attempting to reconcile this strata of post-canonical commentary with Madhyamaka.

As for English language translations, most of the seven Abhidhammapiṭaka texts have been translated and published by the Pali Text Society. I would recommend reading U Thiṭṭila's translation of the Vibhaṅga first, followed by U Kyaw Khine's translation of the Dhammasaṅganī (not published by PTS). These books are expensive, but if you have access to a library with an inter-library loan service you should be able to acquire copies that way.

The Book of Analysis, translated by Ven. U Thiṭṭila.

The Dhammasaṅganī: Enumeration of the Ultimate Realities, translated by U Kyaw Khine (Volume 2).

To begin to get some idea of what the Pāli Abhidhammapiṭaka is like, here is the Satipaṭṭhānavibhaṅga from the Vibhaṅga, translated by Ven. Ānandajoti.

If you can read Pāli, the entire Tipiṭaka in Roman script is available online here: http://www.tipitaka.org/romn/. Other scripts here: http://tipitaka.org/.

:buddha1:


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