Mojo wrote:Dave, my gut is telling me that Anapanasati, if practiced to the letter of how the Buddha intended, would at most lead to the vipassana jhanas.
SN 54.13 wrote:"This is how mindfulness of in-&-out breathing is developed & pursued so as to bring the four frames of reference to their culmination...
"This is how the four frames of reference are developed & pursued so as to bring the seven factors for Awakening to their culmination...
"This is how the seven factors for Awakening, when developed & pursued, bring clear knowing & release to their culmination..."
Mojo wrote: When I look at the Anapanasati Sutta, I see four tetrads to be developed simultaneously not sequentially into an uber state of concentration. I see Vipassana with a capital V.
porpoise wrote:Could you describe how simultaneous development of the 4 tetrads works in practice? And how does this differ from general mindfulness off the cushion?
Mojo wrote:I believe after his enlightenment, he did not support the absorption jhanas as a means or aide to enlightenment.
I don't believe the absorption jhanas fit into his view of the middle way and therefore would not be considered right concentration.
Mojo wrote:an absorption jhana... such a high level of concentration that one is not affected by the five hindrances during that period... while in that intense concentration they weren't able to loosen the bonds of the five hindrances.
I suppose a vipassana jhana would be a level of concentration where one was able to move with and examine and let go of each object as it arose without greeting caught up in a ten minute session of planning a vacation or daydreaming or similar so they can realistically work towards a full and lasting emancipation from the hindrances.
daverupa wrote:I don't understand, I'm sorry.
How can there be a temporary removal of the hindrances if they aren't also loosened?
I think you might be suggesting that this sort of jhana isn't helpful with respect to addressing the hindrances, but satipatthana is for removing the hindrances and developing the awakening factors;
the breath absorption techniques that were both prominent during his time
Three discourses in the Bojjhanga-samyutta present the claims of non-Buddhist wanderers to develop Buddhist-style meditation. They say they exhort their disciples to abandon the five hindrances and to develop, in two cases, the seven enlightenment-factors,[ 216] and in a third case, the four divine abidings.  Elsewhere too the divine abidings are attributed to great sages of the past, notably the Buddha in past lives. However, although these were indeed later appropriated by the Brahmanical tradition, they are not attested in any pre-Buddhist texts. The enlightenment-factors include mindfulness and investigation of dhammas, which is equivalent to vipassana, as well as samadhi. The wanderers ask, then,what is the difference between their teaching and the Buddha's? Interestingly enough, the Buddha responds, not by referring to, say, the four noble truths, not-self, or dependent origination, but by claiming that the wanderers do not fully understand samadhi practice in all details. This is probably what the Buddha was referring to when he claimed elsewhere to have 'awakened to jhana' (jhanam abujjhi); not that he was the first to practice jhana, but that he was the first to fully comprehend both the benefits and the limitations of such experiences. (p. 98)
Mojo wrote:porpoise wrote:Could you describe how simultaneous development of the 4 tetrads works in practice? And how does this differ from general mindfulness off the cushion?
Perhaps a poor word choice on my part. Think of it as seated satipatthana with breathing as the foundation where each tetrad is comprised of concrete and abstract examples of each foundation of mindfulness with instructions to be aware of the nature of object mindfulness that arises and to then let go of the grip that we have on that object. An object might arise from any of the four foundations at any time.
So you aren't developing the tetrads. You are working in them - any one of them at any given time. If no other object of mindfulness is present, then go back to your foundation - the breath.
Users browsing this forum: Dan74-new and 15 guests