This quote on consciousness

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Buckwheat
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by Buckwheat »

In reference to defining consciousness, I intended to add the dictionary definition, but they are mostly not-informative, relying on our inuitive understanding of consciousness and not really strictly defining the phenomenon. So, Wikipedia it is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness
Consciousness is the quality or state of being aware of an external object or something within oneself.[1][2] It has been defined as: subjectivity, awareness, sentience, the ability to experience or to feel, wakefulness, having a sense of selfhood, and the executive control system of the mind.[3] Despite the difficulty in definition, many philosophers believe that there is a broadly shared underlying intuition about what consciousness is.[4] As Max Velmans and Susan Schneider wrote in The Blackwell Companion to Consciousness: "Anything that we are aware of at a given moment forms part of our consciousness, making conscious experience at once the most familiar and most mysterious aspect of our lives."[5]
It continues...
Philosophers since the time of Descartes and Locke have struggled to comprehend the nature of consciousness and pin down its essential properties. Issues of concern in the philosophy of consciousness include whether the concept is fundamentally valid; whether consciousness can ever be explained mechanistically; whether non-human consciousness exists and if so how it can be recognized; how consciousness relates to language; whether consciousness can be understood in a way that does not require a dualistic distinction between mental and physical states or properties; and whether it may ever be possible for computers or robots to be conscious.

At one time consciousness was viewed with skepticism by many scientists, but in recent years it has become a significant topic of research in psychology and neuroscience. The primary focus is on understanding what it means biologically and psychologically for information to be present in consciousness—that is, on determining the neural and psychological correlates of consciousness. The majority of experimental studies assess consciousness by asking human subjects for a verbal report of their experiences (e.g., "tell me if you notice anything when I do this"). Issues of interest include phenomena such as subliminal perception, blindsight, denial of impairment, and altered states of consciousness produced by psychoactive drugs or spiritual or meditative techniques.
One line I find interesting is "determining the neural and psychological correlates of consciousness". I appreciate that this phrase does not confuse correlation with causation, which is so common in discussions of consciousness. I have heard reports that they are getting fairly well tuned into a specific part of the brain which is responsible for bringing together information from all other parts of the brain and conglomerating it into a singular experience. While the correlation with consciousness is high in that case, it still does nothing to prove causation of consciousness (that consciousness is one and the same with this part of the brain).

On the other hand, all of the processes in neurology are large enough (physical dimension) that they would come under classical physical and chemistry laws (not a lot of quantum mechanical "weirdness"). Therefore, anything that interacts with the brain would have to either be of a known physical nature (mass, charge, etc), or interact via a new, undiscovered force, unless we posit a brand new mechanism for violating the central tenet of science (and Buddhism): causes have effects, effects have causes.

I do not have a horse in this race: both possibilities seem equally ridiculous to me. How could consciousness be purely physical? How could it be anything but physical? Both are absurd conclusions based on the currently available data. Again, this is why it's called "the hard problem".
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

Those interested in the Hard Problem of Consciousness and other issues this quote and discussion raise may be interested in Thomas Nagel's new book, Mind and Cosmos. I am reading it currently and it is very interesting.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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convivium
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by convivium »

Nagel's new book is awful. just my two cents from everyone in the berkeley dept. of philosophy i have heard discuss it and almost everyone else that's reviewed it. :coffee:
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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m0rl0ck
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by m0rl0ck »

convivium wrote:
Looking for consciousness in the brain is like selling ice cubes to eskimos
we'll find a neurological correlate for consciousness soon enough. just wait. :console:
I think you missed the point i was trying to make.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig
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convivium
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by convivium »

which was?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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cooran
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by cooran »

LonesomeYogurt wrote:Those interested in the Hard Problem of Consciousness and other issues this quote and discussion raise may be interested in Thomas Nagel's new book, Mind and Cosmos. I am reading it currently and it is very interesting.
thanks LY .... Interesting! Long discussion on his work here.
http://forums.philosophyforums.com/thre ... 58514.html

With metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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convivium
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by convivium »

i seem to be on here a lot, so if you have questions about campbell or searle's view i should be able to answer them.
i'm writing grad papers on CS and disjunctivism for both of them. so far only biological naturalism makes sense to me.
however, i realize there are issues with buddhism in consciousness being localized in whatever way. i've discussed this issue in other places here.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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m0rl0ck
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by m0rl0ck »

convivium wrote:which was?

That its non local. Not just in the sense of some aroma or vapor pervading the objects in the newtonian vision of the universe as a sort of big room, but actually as a fundamental property of the universe. If you look in the brain you will find it, if you in the big toe, you will find it, the looking itself is the finding of it. Its my personal belief, based on years on inquiry and observation of consciousness, that any sincere directed inquiry will start yielding answers about the nature of consciousness. Physics for instance.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig
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convivium
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by convivium »

i wish i could somehow agree that CS is a basic, non-causally reducible property of the universe.
it just doesn't make sense based on our current state of scientific development (even in light of certain quantum experiments).
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by Ron-The-Elder »

Just recently became aware of this woman's work regarding consciousness:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=c ... nie%20boly

Would be interested in discussing the results and implications of her work and that of others in the field of neurosciences for anyone who is interested.
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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