YES man philosophy

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

YES man philosophy

Postby purple planet » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:03 am

Smart not smart - and how it resembles buddhism ? what points does it have in common with buddhism ?

ready...... set .... debate
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby James the Giant » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:29 am

Great idea in a movie and a semi-fictional book.
Bad idea in reality.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby purple planet » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:45 pm

What about this simlarity with buddhism - in buddhism you should "watch" and not react based on feelings (more or less) and it resembles saying yes to everything without judging - to accept everything as it comes without denying it
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:11 pm

purple planet wrote:What about this simlarity with buddhism - in buddhism you should "watch" and not react based on feelings (more or less) and it resembles saying yes to everything without judging - to accept everything as it comes without denying it


In that context, yes, it is similar. When I saw the title of the thread, I thought it was about the typical usage of the term "yes man" of saying yes to everything your boss says, no matter how inept it might be. In that sense, it would be considered being untruthful, not coming out with your true feelings and thoughts just to please your boss. A good boss will accept some constructive criticism.

Being a yes man at work can have catastrophic results as I am reminded of how Gen. Powell and Tony Blair went along with George W. Bush's invasion of Iraq when you know these are intelligent people who wouldn't have approved of that on their own but did so only to please their "boss".

Saying yes to things that come up in meditation, thoughts, sensations, etc., then YES is a good practice as long as it is not 'encouraging' to unwholesome thoughts.
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby convivium » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:12 pm

that's a movie not a philosophy. read nietzsche.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby James the Giant » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:36 am

purple planet wrote:Smart not smart - and how it resembles buddhism ? what points does it have in common with buddhism ?

Actually, reflecting on it more, I do remember when the book first came out, I vowed to say YES to all social invitations, parties, dinners, etc. My social life went very well for some time after that... I went to some parties I didn't enjoy, many that I did enjoy, and I did sleep with more women than I would have otherwise.
I wasn't Buddhist back then.
So, it can have a good effect I guess, if you apply it wisely unlike what I did.
As for resembling Buddhism... I can't think of any particular ways.

Maybe in meditation, a letting go meditation, saying Yes to all things that arise, and letting them come and go...
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby James the Giant » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:41 am

convivium wrote: read nietzsche.

Do not read Nietzsche.
Possibly the most unwholesome European philosopher. Ever.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby polarbuddha101 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:16 am

James the Giant wrote:
convivium wrote: read nietzsche.

Do not read Nietzsche.
Possibly the most unwholesome European philosopher. Ever.


His Ubermensch in Thus Spoke Zarathustra does seem to be rather unlike the Arahant. Still, I think reading Nietzsche is interesting. I would recommend it (even if only to see how wrong view leads to wrong release).

:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby convivium » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:28 am

i am studying nietzsche at berkeley and enjoying it a lot. he's misinterpreted (by nazis, by 13 year olds, etc). you have to study schopenhauer to get nietzsche. and you have to know kant to get schopenhauer.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby convivium » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:46 am

Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby James the Giant » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:46 am

convivium wrote:i am studying nietzsche at berkeley and enjoying it a lot. he's misinterpreted (by nazis, by 13 year olds, etc). you have to study schopenhauer to get nietzsche. and you have to know kant to get schopenhauer.

oh to be 18 again!
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby convivium » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:50 am

there are 60 year olds in my class. nietzsche and schopenhauer isn't easy philosophy.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby convivium » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:53 am

i don't mean to sound ageist.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby polarbuddha101 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:00 am

convivium wrote:i am studying nietzsche at berkeley and enjoying it a lot. he's misinterpreted (by nazis, by 13 year olds, etc). you have to study schopenhauer to get nietzsche. and you have to know kant to get schopenhauer.


He is misinterpreted quite often, but I would still consider his philosophy as antithetical to buddhist practice/philosophy. For one, Nietzsche's moral philosophy rejects the notion that the skillful/wholesome and the unskillful/unwholesome is or can be the same for all and one for a variety of reasons. Second, the eternal recurrence has rather obvious implications that make the buddhist path rather silly to undertake. Third, he considered buddhist practice life denying.
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby convivium » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:14 am

Nietzsche's moral philosophy rejects the notion that the skillful/wholesome and the unskillful/unwholesome is or can be the same for all and one for a variety of reasons. Second, the eternal recurrence has rather obvious implications that make the buddhist path rather silly to undertake. Third, he considered buddhist practice life denying.
i don't have time to write an essay here. you have to read nietzsche with a lot of context in mind; you have to try understand and relate to him like you would a friend. the first point has to take into account common sense. the second point doesn't seem in any way anathema to buddhist practice if you don't construe it metaphysically. and the third point: the goal of the deathless qua escape from the cycle of rebirths is life denying.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby polarbuddha101 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:34 am

convivium wrote:
Nietzsche's moral philosophy rejects the notion that the skillful/wholesome and the unskillful/unwholesome is or can be the same for all and one for a variety of reasons. Second, the eternal recurrence has rather obvious implications that make the buddhist path rather silly to undertake. Third, he considered buddhist practice life denying.
i don't have time to write an essay here. you have to read nietzsche with a lot of context in mind; you have to try understand and relate to him like you would a friend. the first point has to take into account common sense. the second point doesn't seem in any way anathema to buddhist practice if you don't construe it metaphysically. and the third point: the goal of the deathless qua escape from the cycle of rebirths is life denying.


So then you agree, Nietzsche's philosophy is antithetical to buddhist practice/philosophy? The first point actually has to take into account Nietzsche's ideas about morality and the causal inefficacy of will, not common sense. There's disagreement on whether Nietzsche took the eternal recurrence metaphysically, it may just be a tool that helps one to seize the day with more gusto. Nietszsche's Ubermensch heavily criticizes life denying philosophers. Just taking the last point and disregarding the other two one can see that Nietzche's philosophy is antithetical to buddhist philosophy/practice.

:namaste:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby convivium » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:40 am

no i don't agree. i'll get back to you on it if you want.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby polarbuddha101 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:45 am

convivium wrote:no i don't agree. i'll get back to you on it if you want.


I'm intrigued, please do.

:namaste:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby Ben » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:46 am

ok, lets now return to topic.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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Re: YES man philosophy

Postby convivium » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:45 pm

well i was going to respond, i guess i'll pm you.
with regard to the op, you have to have sila, mindfulness, circumspection and sense restraint.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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