Be like water

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Be like water

Postby purple planet » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:22 am

to be like water philosophy - in short : to be flexible to flow around obstacles not get attached to stuff ect ...

feel free to debate about it - what are all the qualitys of water we can learn from ? how is this philosophy similar and different than buddhism ? ect ...ect...
Last edited by purple planet on Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Be like water

Postby Sam Vara » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:04 am

Image

Well, it's fine if we remember when to be like water, and when not to be like water.
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Re: Be like water

Postby James the Giant » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:14 am

purple planet wrote:to be like water philosophy - in short : to be flexible to flow around obstacles not get attached to stuff ect ...

feel free to debate about it - what are all the qualitys of water we can learn from ? how is this philosophy similar and different than buddhism ?

Are you working your way through a list of topics for people to debate upon?
Because this is remarkably similar to a couple of other topics you have started recently.
Not saying it's bad, just, you know, you don't have to fill the silence with words if you don't have anything to say or ask. Not typing is okay.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: Be like water

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:19 am

Some similes for water from the Milindapañha:

“As water naturally remains still; so should the monk be without hypocrisy, complaining, hinting, and improper behaviour and remain undisturbed and pure by nature.

“As water always refreshes; so should the monk, full of compassion, always seek the good and benefit of all.

“As water never harms anyone; so should the monk, earnest in effort, never do any wrong that would produce quarrels or strife, or anger or discontent. For it was said by the Blessed One in the Kanha Jātaka:

“O Sakka, Lord of all the world, a choice thou bidst declare:
No creature be aught harmed for me, O Sakka, anywhere,
Neither in body nor in mind: this, Sakka, is my prayer.”
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Re: Be like water

Postby Ben » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:27 am

"Rahula, develop meditation that is like water; for when you develop meditation tht is like water, arisen agreeable and disagreeable contacts will not invade your mind and remain..."
-- MN 62.14
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

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Re: Be like water

Postby equilibrium » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:34 am

purple planet wrote:to be like water philosophy.....

Bruce Lee said something very interesting on water:
Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
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Re: Be like water

Postby purple planet » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:05 pm

Are you working your way through a list of topics for people to debate upon?
Because this is remarkably similar to a couple of other topics you have started recently.
Not saying it's bad, just, you know, you don't have to fill the silence with words if you don't have anything to say or ask. Not typing is okay.


its only this and the "yes" thread
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Re: Be like water

Postby James the Giant » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:16 pm

purple planet wrote:its only this and the "yes" thread

Sorry, I apologise for being harsh.
So what are your thoughts on being like water? :anjali:
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: Be like water

Postby befriend » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:23 pm

water causes no liking or disliking so its the personification of ultamite reality. its a noble substance for the reason that when drunk it doesnt create any defilements to arise, unlike cranberry juice etc..
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Re: Be like water

Postby Mojo » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:32 pm

This is a strong theme in Herman Hess' Siddhartha. I was assigned to write an essay on this book in college which is what sparked my interest in Buddhism.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/055320884 ... mdp_mobile
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Re: Be like water

Postby purple planet » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:01 pm

Sorry, I apologise for being harsh
- cool and you probobly got some good amount of good karma right there

Well i saw the simile that goes : dont be like a tree be like reed which bends when there is a strong wind unlike the tree which dosnt and because his not flexible enough he brakes

than i thought its a nice simile but a reed dosnt have a goal he does nothing and i would like to find a simile who can help me face problems - and than thought about water - but i didnt find a good water simile yet

a good simile for instance is : mindfulness is like a river and rocks on his path are thoughts and feelings and the river dosnt stop every time he "meets" a rock but he flows around it - he dosnt move it just flows around

i would like to hear as much similes as possible - it would be nice to have a simple simile that fits lots of situations in life which can help in my motivation - including motivation to meditate and be more mindful ( i dont want this debate to be if its good for me to use similes or not im pretty sure it will help me having a good simile )

if someone has a good simile that isnt water that can fit lots of situation than i would like to hear also - be like grass\sand ect

The main question i think is : i would like to find explanations to places where water arent acting the best way possible and would like to find a good explanation to that
( i dont really want to be water and i know water does bad stuff - but as a simile just as aid it can be a nice way to remember how to act)

i would like to find some simile for example on how water never stops and always flows until it reaches its goal - but water stops at dams right ?

another example - for instances i wanted to think that water always flows to the lowest place no matter the obstacles - but thats not true - because water can stop for instance at a small lake on a mountain side which is surrounded by dirt piles even if there would be a lower lake on the bottom of the mountain

one nice solution can be that you can be assimilated to a fountain and water that comes out to effort when you put enough effort you can overcome anything with enough water you can overflow dams and piles of dirt and overcome a hot sun which vaporizes the water

any other stuff someone wants to say on the subject is more than welcomed
Last edited by purple planet on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Please send merit to my old dog named Mika - thanks in advance
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Re: Be like water

Postby Coyote » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:53 pm


As a water bead on a lotus leaf,
as water on a red lily,
does not adhere,

so the sage
does not adhere
to the seen, the heard, or the sensed;

-Sutta Nipata (Thanissaro)


As a lotus flower is born in water, grows in water and rises out of water to stand above it unsoiled, so I, born in the world, raised in the world having overcome the world, live unsoiled by the world
(Not sure if this one is authentic, can't find a source)
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
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Re: Be like water

Postby Samma » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:23 am

From what I understand, for Bruce Lee, this like water stuff was manly referring to traditional martial arts vs his jeet kune do. Traditional martial arts of a particular school may have had a particular stance, and ways of attacking, defending. While Jeet Kune Do is do what is best for the situation kind of thing.

This seems to be related to Taoist concept of wu-wei or “effortless action”. But like I said in the tiger woods thread, I'm not sure how much Buddhism might have something like this.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=16371

In the original Taoist texts, wu wei is often associated with water and its yielding nature. Although water is soft and weak, it has the capacity to erode even solid stone (for example, the Grand Canyon) and move mountains (for example, landslides). Water is without will (that is, the will for a shape), though it may be understood to be opposing wood, stone, or any solid aggregated material that can be broken into pieces. Due to its nature and propensity, water may potentially fill any container, assume any shape; given the Water cycle water may potentially go "anywhere", even into the minutest holes, both metaphorical and actual. Droplets of water, when falling as rain, gather in watersheds, flowing into and forming rivers of water, joining the proverbial sea: this is the nature of water. (wikipedia)
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Re: Be like water

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:12 pm

Samma wrote:...
This seems to be related to Taoist concept of wu-wei or “effortless action”. ...
In the original Taoist texts, wu wei is often associated with water and its yielding nature. Although water is soft and weak, it has the capacity to erode even solid stone (for example, the Grand Canyon) and move mountains (for example, landslides). Water is without will (that is, the will for a shape), though it may be understood to be opposing wood, stone, or any solid aggregated material that can be broken into pieces. Due to its nature and propensity, water may potentially fill any container, assume any shape; given the Water cycle water may potentially go "anywhere", even into the minutest holes, both metaphorical and actual. Droplets of water, when falling as rain, gather in watersheds, flowing into and forming rivers of water, joining the proverbial sea: this is the nature of water. (wikipedia)

Yes, I was going to mention the Taoist use of the metaphor. Letting yourself accept circumstances and adapt to them rather than fighting (uselessly) against them is often likened to flowing like water around obstacles.

:namaste:
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Re: Be like water

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:45 am

Greetings,



Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Be like water

Postby polarbuddha101 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:50 am

Coyote wrote:
As a water bead on a lotus leaf,
as water on a red lily,
does not adhere,

so the sage
does not adhere
to the seen, the heard, or the sensed;

-Sutta Nipata (Thanissaro)


As a lotus flower is born in water, grows in water and rises out of water to stand above it unsoiled, so I, born in the world, raised in the world having overcome the world, live unsoiled by the world
(Not sure if this one is authentic, can't find a source)


Maybe you're thinking of this sutta:

On one occasion the Blessed One was traveling along the road between Ukkattha and Setabya, and Dona the brahman was also traveling along the road between Ukkattha and Setabya. Dona the brahman saw, in the Blessed One's footprints, wheels with 1,000 spokes, together with rims and hubs, complete in all their features. On seeing them, the thought occurred to him, "How amazing! How astounding! These are not the footprints of a human being!"

Then the Blessed One, leaving the road, went to sit at the root of a certain tree — his legs crossed, his body erect, with mindfulness established to the fore. Then Dona, following the Blessed One's footprints, saw him sitting at the root of the tree: confident, inspiring confidence, his senses calmed, his mind calmed, having attained the utmost control & tranquility, tamed, guarded, his senses restrained, a naga.[1] On seeing him, he went to him and said, "Master, are you a deva?"[2]

"No, brahman, I am not a deva."

"Are you a gandhabba?"

"No..."

"... a yakkha?"

"No..."

"... a human being?"

"No, brahman, I am not a human being."

"When asked, 'Are you a deva?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a deva.' When asked, 'Are you a gandhabba?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a gandhabba.' When asked, 'Are you a yakkha?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a yakkha.' When asked, 'Are you a human being?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a human being.' Then what sort of being are you?"

"Brahman, the fermentations by which — if they were not abandoned — I would be a deva: Those are abandoned by me, their root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. The fermentations by which — if they were not abandoned — I would be a gandhabba... a yakkha... a human being: Those are abandoned by me, their root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising.

"Just like a red, blue, or white lotus — born in the water, grown in the water, rising up above the water — stands unsmeared by the water, in the same way I — born in the world, grown in the world, having overcome the world — live unsmeared by the world. Remember me, brahman, as 'awakened.'


"The fermentations by which I would go
to a deva-state,
or become a gandhabba in the sky,
or go to a yakkha-state & human-state:
Those have been destroyed by me,
ruined, their stems removed.
Like a blue lotus, rising up,
unsmeared by water,
unsmeared am I by the world,
and so, brahman,
I'm awake."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: Be like water

Postby purple planet » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:22 am

Another thing that bugs me : water cant penetrate impermeable areas thats how Aquifer is created - the water cant seep under a solid rock area and they stay where they are - or am i mistaken and they can go throw any layer ?
(it disturbs the water idiom because it cant be said that water can come any obstacle if they get stcuk and cant seep throw some earth layer)
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Re: Be like water

Postby Ben » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:27 pm

It depends on the porousness of the medium.
There are aquifers in this country that are seems of basalt.
Basalt has the appearance of being solid but is in fact full of fissures and tiny bubbles.
kind regards,

Ben
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

Sayagyi U Ba Khin


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Re: Be like water

Postby purple planet » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:36 pm

But what about rocks that are one solid part - or really dense earth that water cant seep throw ? ( just throwing this stuff out not sure if its true and hope to be corrected )
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Re: Be like water

Postby Ben » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:08 pm

Don't get fixated on the metaphor.
It is afterall just more mental proliferation.
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

Sayagyi U Ba Khin


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UNHCR Syria Emergency Relief AppealTyphoon Haiyan Relief AppealKiva: (person to person micro-finance)

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