What motivates Arahant?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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SDC
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by SDC »

Alex123 wrote:If there is no perception of self, then there is no perception of other self to feel compassion for.
The arahant is well aware of the conventional understanding of the puthujjana and will adopt that convention intentionally in order to communicate. And as David said a reason for doing this would likely be to teach and/or represent the dhamma.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
pegembara
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by pegembara »

Compassion.

have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Savatthi at Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. Then Ven. Radha went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: "'A being,' lord. 'A being,' it's said. To what extent is one said to be 'a being'?"

"Any desire, passion, delight, or craving for form, Radha: when one is caught up[1] there, tied up[2] there, one is said to be 'a being.'[3]

"Any desire, passion, delight, or craving for feeling... perception... fabrications...

"Any desire, passion, delight, or craving for consciousness, Radha: when one is caught up there, tied up there, one is said to be 'a being.'

"Just as when boys or girls are playing with little sand castles:[4] as long as they are not free from passion, desire, love, thirst, fever, & craving for those little sand castles, that's how long they have fun with those sand castles, enjoy them, treasure them, feel possessive of them. But when they become free from passion, desire, love, thirst, fever, & craving for those little sand castles, then they smash them, scatter them, demolish them with their hands or feet and make them unfit for play.

"In the same way, Radha, you too should smash, scatter, & demolish form, and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for form.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish feeling, and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for feeling.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish perception, and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for perception.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish fabrications, and make them unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for fabrications.

"You should smash, scatter, & demolish consciousness and make it unfit for play. Practice for the ending of craving for consciousness — for the ending of craving, Radha, is Unbinding."

Satta Sutta
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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ground
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by ground »

Alex123 wrote:Hello all,

If Arahant has no self view, no perception of self, no greed, anger or delusion, then why does Arahant eat or do anything? :?: Arahant has no craving to prolong or protect the existence of his body. When Arahant walks somewhere, why does s/he avoid walking off the cliff? Arahant isn't supposed to have fear or concern for his own body, and no self perception either. It seems that certain amount of perception of self is required to respond to situation and to avoid starving to death, walking into a wall rather than door, getting ran over by a car, eaten by tiger, etc. If person had absolutely no perception of self, clinging, aversion or delusion, then what would motivate him to move or change anything?

Any comments?
It is you who constructs all these ideas because you have conditioned yourself to think these ways. What would be your unconditioned ideas? :sage:
SarathW
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by SarathW »

The existing body of an Arahant is a result of previous Karma. So the existing body will continue until previous Karma is exhausted. Meanwhile he/she exercises Brhamavihara’s and no more accumulation of fresh Karma. Their actions are known as Kiriya Citta. :)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Alex123
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by Alex123 »

santa100 wrote:
Alex123 wrote:
If Arahant has no self view, no perception of self, no greed, anger or delusion, then why does Arahant eat or do anything?
Because Arahants have completely abandoned the Five Hindrances, one of which is "sloth and torpor"..

But they do not cling to their body, so why eat? They don't cling to existence, and they don't cling to helping (to whatever extent that is possible) others either. Without clinging to the body (in order to...), one would die and be unable to help others.

As I understand it, certain perception of self is required to respond to stimuli such as hunger, heat, cold, danger, etc. One protects oneself and one responds accordingly because one knows that "I am in danger or discomfort therefor I, not someone else, need to do something". IMHO.
santa100
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by santa100 »

Alex123 wrote:
But they do not cling to their body, so why eat? They don't cling to existence, and they don't cling to helping (to whatever extent that is possible) others either. Without clinging to the body (in order to...), one would die and be unable to help others.

As I understand it, certain perception of self is required to respond to stimuli such as hunger, heat, cold, danger, etc. One protects oneself and one responds accordingly because one knows that "I am in danger or discomfort therefor I, not someone else, need to do something". IMHO
But why can't arahants eat after their enlightenment? Starving oneself to death on purpose is the same as killing a sentient being, thus breaking the 1st Precept, something an arahant wouldn't do..
daverupa
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by daverupa »

Motivation isn't the same as clinging or craving.

There can be sankhara, in other words, which are wholly unrelated to raga, dosa, moha, and these sankhara can be found amongst the five aggregates of an arahant, even though the aggregates are no longer subject to clinging. Compassion is a motive of this sort, for example.

Arahants still experience five aggregates, not just four...
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Alex123
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by Alex123 »

santa100 wrote:But why can't arahants eat after their enlightenment?
Arahant has no perception of "I, me, mine" so how can he know that "I am hungry and I need to eat or I will die".

This is what I wonder.
Coyote
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by Coyote »

Just because he/she does not identify with the aggregates does not mean he/she understands no distinction between one being and another. He/she knows "this is hunger" and eats because it is appropriate/because she will die.
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
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Alex123
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by Alex123 »

Coyote wrote:Just because he/she does not identify with the aggregates does not mean he/she understands no distinction between one being and another. .
But doesn't one need to identify with one's own aggregates to feed them, and not someone else's?
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Modus.Ponens
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by Modus.Ponens »

Do you need to identify with a fellow hungry man's agregates in order to feed him?
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
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Alex123
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by Alex123 »

Modus.Ponens wrote:Do you need to identify with a fellow hungry man's agregates in order to feed him?
I need to know that I am one person and he is another person. He is hungry not me, so I feed him and not me.

If I am hungry, then I need to eat, not him. I need to distinguish him from me. So one needs to perceive identity and difference.
Gena1480
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by Gena1480 »

The Arahant abandon greed,delusion,anger
so the actions come from non-greed,non-delusion,non-anger.
he is untraceable
yet if you follow the path he took.
you will arrive at same destination.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Alex123 wrote:If I am hungry, then I need to eat, not him. I need to distinguish him from me. So one needs to perceive identity and difference.
Alex, what you need to do is find out what motivates you, not what motivates Arahants.
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Buckwheat
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Re: What motivates Arahant?

Post by Buckwheat »

Alex123 wrote:...they do not cling to their body, so why eat?
Why not eat? To not seek food is also a choice.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
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