Be like water

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Polar Bear
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Re: Be like water

Post by Polar Bear »

Coyote wrote:
As a water bead on a lotus leaf,
as water on a red lily,
does not adhere,

so the sage
does not adhere
to the seen, the heard, or the sensed;

-Sutta Nipata (Thanissaro)


As a lotus flower is born in water, grows in water and rises out of water to stand above it unsoiled, so I, born in the world, raised in the world having overcome the world, live unsoiled by the world
(Not sure if this one is authentic, can't find a source)
Maybe you're thinking of this sutta:
On one occasion the Blessed One was traveling along the road between Ukkattha and Setabya, and Dona the brahman was also traveling along the road between Ukkattha and Setabya. Dona the brahman saw, in the Blessed One's footprints, wheels with 1,000 spokes, together with rims and hubs, complete in all their features. On seeing them, the thought occurred to him, "How amazing! How astounding! These are not the footprints of a human being!"

Then the Blessed One, leaving the road, went to sit at the root of a certain tree — his legs crossed, his body erect, with mindfulness established to the fore. Then Dona, following the Blessed One's footprints, saw him sitting at the root of the tree: confident, inspiring confidence, his senses calmed, his mind calmed, having attained the utmost control & tranquility, tamed, guarded, his senses restrained, a naga.[1] On seeing him, he went to him and said, "Master, are you a deva?"[2]

"No, brahman, I am not a deva."

"Are you a gandhabba?"

"No..."

"... a yakkha?"

"No..."

"... a human being?"

"No, brahman, I am not a human being."

"When asked, 'Are you a deva?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a deva.' When asked, 'Are you a gandhabba?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a gandhabba.' When asked, 'Are you a yakkha?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a yakkha.' When asked, 'Are you a human being?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a human being.' Then what sort of being are you?"

"Brahman, the fermentations by which — if they were not abandoned — I would be a deva: Those are abandoned by me, their root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. The fermentations by which — if they were not abandoned — I would be a gandhabba... a yakkha... a human being: Those are abandoned by me, their root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising.

"Just like a red, blue, or white lotus — born in the water, grown in the water, rising up above the water — stands unsmeared by the water, in the same way I — born in the world, grown in the world, having overcome the world — live unsmeared by the world. Remember me, brahman, as 'awakened.'


"The fermentations by which I would go
to a deva-state,
or become a gandhabba in the sky,
or go to a yakkha-state & human-state:
Those have been destroyed by me,
ruined, their stems removed.
Like a blue lotus, rising up,
unsmeared by water,
unsmeared am I by the world,
and so, brahman,
I'm awake."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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purple planet
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Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:07 am

Re: Be like water

Post by purple planet »

Another thing that bugs me : water cant penetrate impermeable areas thats how Aquifer is created - the water cant seep under a solid rock area and they stay where they are - or am i mistaken and they can go throw any layer ?
(it disturbs the water idiom because it cant be said that water can come any obstacle if they get stcuk and cant seep throw some earth layer)
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Ben
Posts: 18438
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Be like water

Post by Ben »

It depends on the porousness of the medium.
There are aquifers in this country that are seems of basalt.
Basalt has the appearance of being solid but is in fact full of fissures and tiny bubbles.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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purple planet
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Re: Be like water

Post by purple planet »

But what about rocks that are one solid part - or really dense earth that water cant seep throw ? ( just throwing this stuff out not sure if its true and hope to be corrected )
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Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Be like water

Post by Ben »

Don't get fixated on the metaphor.
It is afterall just more mental proliferation.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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purple planet
Posts: 728
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:07 am

Re: Be like water

Post by purple planet »

Im not looking for metaphors all the time - and im not fixated on this alone but

it would just be super helpful to have this one good metaphor about water :" be flexible be persistent and you can overcome everything " but can water overcome rock on the buttom of a lake ? no

(if i could meditate i would but i need some motivational help - and a good metaphor is extremely helpful at least on me it is- i usually like to hear about this but im sure it will help me (if i wont find a solution to this thats fine but nothing wrong in trying))
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Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Be like water

Post by Ben »

Then I recommend that you go back to the quote I posted earlier in the thread. The sutta, delivered to Rahula, is incredibly powerful and profound.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
User avatar
purple planet
Posts: 728
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:07 am

Re: Be like water

Post by purple planet »

Thats a good quote i like all posts that were posted here - i allready saw that spesific quote its very nice the more water quotes the better but this water idiom has allready helped me a lot and is giving me motivation - im not looking for it to be perfect probobly water dosnt "act" the way it does to make a good idiom for me - but it would be helpful to try and understand it more - i meditate and everything now - but it would be nice to understand water more - maybe i should open a new thread that just is about water route sciencetifically ?

so about my question i found this : http://www.livescience.com/1312-huge-oc ... earth.html
its about how scientists have found evidence of water under the sea floor

i wonder how it got there - did it seep there under the ocean floor - or was it there to begin with ? if it seeped down then its great for the idiom - that water can allways overcome anything - But that might be only in certain parts - cause water cant seep under a solid rock
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