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Anatta = not Atman or No-Self - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries

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Samma
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby Samma » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:08 am


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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:50 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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Spiny Norman
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:59 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Alex123
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby Alex123 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:34 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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kirk5a
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby kirk5a » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:05 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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reflection
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby reflection » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:47 pm


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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

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Nyorai
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby Nyorai » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:23 am

ImageTo become vegetarian is to step into the stream which leads to nirvana.
If you light a lamp for somebody, it will also brighten your path. He who experiences the unity of life sees his own Self in all beings, and all beings in his own Self.Image

SarathW
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby SarathW » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:35 am

Some interesting reading in world oldest printed book "Diamond- Sutra", in relation to Anatta.

http://www.diamond-sutra.com/diamond_su ... ation.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby Spiny Norman » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:37 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Alex123
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby Alex123 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:58 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby Spiny Norman » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:34 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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reflection
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby reflection » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:34 am

I interpret "sabbe dhamma anatta" as such. Just like there probably is no sutta that says "permanence doesn't exist (in conditioned things)", saying ", "everything conditioned is impermanent" is saying just the same. By making a statement on one thing, you make a statement on the other. Saying it's all impermanent, is saying it's all not permanent. Saying it's all anatta, is saying it's all not atta.

Now what are the conditioned things? The Buddha would explain them in terms of the five khandas or the six senses. These he called anatta. The point is, there is nothing outside of these that you can experience. So that's another statement indirectly saying there to be no self. Like I were to say, there are no dragons in or on land, nowhere in or on water, air or space. I mention these locations, just to make clear to you I didn't forget to look anywhere. In the end, it comes down to dragons don't exist, because where else to look for them? Well, in the mind perhaps, as an idea. We can perceive a self in things that are not self, that is surely possible.

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kirk5a
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:57 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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reflection
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby reflection » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:42 pm

That's right. But the unconditioned is the cessation of the conditioned, not the arising of something. But if we speak about anatta, it doesn't matter, because the unconditioned is also anatta. "Sabbe sankhara anicca", means all the conditioned is impermanent, but "sabbe dhamma anatta", means everything is anatta, both conditioned and unconditioned.

It's stated like that, because anicca and dukkha speak about the presence of something, while anatta speaks about the absence of something. Suffering and impermanence are existing things here, but anatta means there is not a self here, so in that sense it is not an existing reality. I hope you understand it like this, because I have difficulty rephrasing. Since the unconditioned is the cessation of things, we can only speak of the absence of things. So, suffering and impermanence cease, but not anatta, because anatta was not an existing thing in the first place. So it's not like anatta is replaced by atta. That's impossible.

If you see it like this, you see why anatta, dukkha and anicca are three terms pointing to the same thing. Three dhamma doors, if you wish. Because of anatta, there is impermanence. Because of impermanence, there is suffering.

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Alex123
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby Alex123 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:39 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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reflection
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby reflection » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:26 pm

Hi Alex. Why would it not be absolute if it was about the six senses? The Buddha called it 'the world' with a reason. Is there a seventh sense? I can't find it. To me the six senses are all-pervasive, they are everything.

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Alex123
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Re: Anatta = not Atman or No-Self

Postby Alex123 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:11 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."


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