Greetings
In my eternal on going debate that im currently having i was met with an article from a memeber of the Sangha who talks quite openly about a true Self (i wont say the name of what tradition)
The guy then basically stuck to this and, from what i can tell, it allowed him to cling more tightly at his Atman concept since he felt it was justified by, what he sees as, wise Buddhist monks
Do we think that Sangha memebers who teach in these terms actually do damage to Dhamma and to others wanting to understand Dhamma, since it seems to let people cling to some sense of Self
metta
Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?
Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?
“The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?
There is the famous and aptly named Vacchagota who has been on any number of forums supposedly arguing for a self from the Pali suttas.clw_uk wrote:Greetings
In my eternal on going debate that im currently having i was met with an article from a memeber of the Sangha who talks quite openly about a true Self (i wont say the name of what tradition)
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
- Cittasanto
- Posts: 6646
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
- Location: Ellan Vannin
- Contact:
Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?
I would be interested to see this article.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
- DNS
- Site Admin
- Posts: 17169
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
- Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
- Contact:
Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?
Unfortunately I have heard and read some teachings from some teachers who talk of this "true self." I think it is a distortion of the teachings and does damage. Their motivation may be sincere, a sort of 'skilful means' until beginners are ready to learn about anatta. But more likely the teacher cannot or is not willing to accept/understand anatta and wants to fit their wish into the Dhamma.clw_uk wrote: Do we think that Sangha memebers who teach in these terms actually do damage to Dhamma and to others wanting to understand Dhamma, since it seems to let people cling to some sense of Self
In my opinion, the damage probably outweighs any 'skilful means' that might be in play.
Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?
I'll make it even simpler: people who teach in these terms do not teach Buddhism. When one teaches non-Buddhism as Buddhism they do damage to themselves and others.clw_uk wrote:Do we think that Sangha memebers who teach in these terms actually do damage to Dhamma and to others wanting to understand Dhamma, since it seems to let people cling to some sense of Self[?]
- Peter
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?
Well said!Peter wrote:I'll make it even simpler: people who teach in these terms do not teach Buddhism. When one teaches non-Buddhism as Buddhism they do damage to themselves and others.clw_uk wrote:Do we think that Sangha memebers who teach in these terms actually do damage to Dhamma and to others wanting to understand Dhamma, since it seems to let people cling to some sense of Self[?]
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?
I can see why people in today’s world would be so quick to cling onto a sense of self. Despite the knowledge given in scripture, it can still be frightening for some people to give up their egocentric views when many have been conditioned since birth to believe that they are a separate entity that is the center of the universe. I agree, however, that it is damaging as it goes against the basic tenets of Buddhism. Do you have a link to the article?
~nomad
~nomad
"I am because we are." -Xhosa Tribal Saying
Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?
Not just people in today's world, but people in any world. The Buddha teaches that the most fundamental delusion underlying all the suffering in the world is the delusion "I am".nomad wrote:I can see why people in today’s world would be so quick to cling onto a sense of self.
- Peter
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Re: Teachings of Self Damaging Dhamma?
Agreed. Personally, I think it's one of the most difficult aspects of the Buddha's teachings.Peter wrote:Not just people in today's world, but people in any world. The Buddha teaches that the most fundamental delusion underlying all the suffering in the world is the delusion "I am".nomad wrote:I can see why people in today’s world would be so quick to cling onto a sense of self.
~nomad
"I am because we are." -Xhosa Tribal Saying