A Question about Rebirth

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Re: A Question about Rebirth

Postby Lazy_eye » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:19 pm

Individual post-mortem rebirth aside, sentient beings in general continue to be born. The process of birth, life and death continues, irrespective of whether it happens to any one individual once or multiple times. Judging by the news and simply observing one's personal experience, it is clear we are heavily affected by greed, hatred and delusion, for which Dhamma is an antidote. In the future, we may succeed in colonizing other parts of the universe, bringing with us our afflictions.

Again, putting aside this one question, is the course of sentient life aided by following the Buddha's teachings, or no? If everyone on the planet learned to practice anapanasati or satipatthana, or simply followed the five precepts, or contemplated impermanence and the ephemeral quality of "Self", would this be a net benefit, or would it make no difference?
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Re: A Question about Rebirth

Postby Heaviside » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:11 pm

Here is snippet from another interesting thread by Lazy_eye to which Sam Vara responds (in part):

So perhaps the Buddha had confidence that Sariputta could teach in such a way that even such "unpromising" individuals as Dhananjani could achieve enlightenment. Or, the sub-text might be that one who has such apparently poor background and circumstances should not be judged as being incapable of liberation in this lifetime. After all, the Buddha saw possibilities in the most unheedful of people: Angulimala.


I think there is a lot of this type of subtext surrounding the suttas when rebirth is being discussed. It is difficult to sort things out from the context, both of the particular sutta and of the era in which the Buddha lived.

By the way, I have a somewhat pedestrian question: in practice, I often see the phrase "the Buddha," whereas I have seen exhortations in other places that the word Buddha means 'the enlightened one;" hence one should simply say "Buddha," rather than "the Buddha." I kniw there are many here with expertise in Pali, so can someone clear up the issue for me?

Many thanks.
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Re: A Question about Rebirth

Postby robertk » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:36 pm

Lazy_eye wrote:Individual post-mortem rebirth aside, sentient beings in general continue to be born. The process of birth, life and death continues, irrespective of whether it happens to any one individual once or multiple times. Judging by the news and simply observing one's personal experience, it is clear we are heavily affected by greed, hatred and delusion, for which Dhamma is an antidote. In the future, we may succeed in colonizing other parts of the universe, bringing with us our afflictions.

Again, putting aside this one question, is the course of sentient life aided by following the Buddha's teachings, or no? If everyone on the planet learned to practice anapanasati or satipatthana, or simply followed the five precepts, or contemplated impermanence and the ephemeral quality of "Self", would this be a net benefit, or would it make no difference?

this is very much not in line with orthodox theravada. Pleaase read the forum guidelines.
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Re: A Question about Rebirth

Postby Lazy_eye » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:54 pm

robertk wrote:
Lazy_eye wrote:Individual post-mortem rebirth aside, sentient beings in general continue to be born. The process of birth, life and death continues, irrespective of whether it happens to any one individual once or multiple times. Judging by the news and simply observing one's personal experience, it is clear we are heavily affected by greed, hatred and delusion, for which Dhamma is an antidote. In the future, we may succeed in colonizing other parts of the universe, bringing with us our afflictions.

Again, putting aside this one question, is the course of sentient life aided by following the Buddha's teachings, or no? If everyone on the planet learned to practice anapanasati or satipatthana, or simply followed the five precepts, or contemplated impermanence and the ephemeral quality of "Self", would this be a net benefit, or would it make no difference?

this is very much not in line with orthodox theravada. Pleaase read the forum guidelines.


Yes, I see the post does not comply with the guidelines. Please feel free to move it to "Great Rebirth Debate" or some other suitable thread.

May i clarify,though, that I am not providing an interpretation here, orthodox or otherwise -- just stating facts and asking a question. Sentient beings do continue to be born, life and death happens, and a great deal of what goes on around us (and in our own lives) is clearly affected by greed, hatred and delusion. Does classical Theravada deny any of the above statements?
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Re: A Question about Rebirth

Postby Heaviside » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:20 am

I found this discussion of rebirth to be quite interesting:

http://justalittledust.com/blog/?p=503

Any comments?
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Re: A Question about Rebirth

Postby daverupa » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:27 am

Perhaps; not in this sub-forum...

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    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: A Question about Rebirth

Postby Nyorai » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:17 am

Heaviside wrote:I found this discussion of rebirth to be quite interesting:

http://justalittledust.com/blog/?p=503

Any comments?


Basically is the same as it touches on mental volitional that resulted into appearances of form and non form, and these form and non form also directly effecting the mental volitional that rebirth is/are taking place :popcorn: .
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Re: A Question about Rebirth

Postby mogg » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:43 pm

Buckwheat wrote:Lazy Eye,
I go through the same things Lazy Eye describes. A few things that help me are: read the Kalama Sutta (link) and pay close attention to the fact that the Buddha says even if rebirth is not accurate, the practice has benefit here and now. I find this to be quite true, and I have found that when my practice slacks, I immediately feel more entangled in dukkha, and less able to deal with it maturely and responsibly.

On the other hand, I do have dark times due to the goal being rendered moot. But I only feel that way when I'm pessimistic, and the best prescription for that is more practice.

Also, this is just my opinion, but I have a suspicion that what the Buddha referred to as rebirth has a middle value, neither the easily acceptable "metaphor" for moment to rebirth, nor the literal rebirth that easy to understand but hard to believe. I have a feeling he is referring to something different altogether, deep, subtle, hard to comprehend. But that's just my opinion.

The Buddha is talking about literal rebirth. This can be confirmed through meditation and there are many that have performed that very injunction.
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