YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Essence of the Buddha's teachings? - Dhamma Wheel

Essence of the Buddha's teachings?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
SamKR
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Essence of the Buddha's teachings?

Postby SamKR » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:54 pm

Last edited by SamKR on Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:58 pm

Good question, Sam,

Here is some previous discussion that may be helpful:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8361

:anjali:
Mike

SamKR
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings

Postby SamKR » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:51 pm

Thank you, Mike for the link.
But the question is still there. These suttas seem to be the actual "meditation" instructions, and they are, of course, in line with MahaSatipatthana Sutta.

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings

Postby daverupa » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:59 pm


User avatar
Zom
Posts: 1645
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:38 pm
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
Contact:

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings

Postby Zom » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:02 pm

Read MN 64 for full mediation instructions for Malunkyaputta.

SamKR
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings

Postby SamKR » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:12 pm

Last edited by SamKR on Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SamKR
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings

Postby SamKR » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:16 pm


SamKR
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings

Postby SamKR » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:54 am

Still, Ven. Malunkyaputta (if he is the same person in both suttas MahaMaalunkyaputta Sutta and Malunkyaputta Sutta) becomes arahant after hearing the latter brief discourse.
But I find MahaMaalunkyaputta a great sutta -- teaching insight within jhana. I believe I had not read it before.

Digity
Posts: 1205
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:13 am

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings?

Postby Digity » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:51 am

If these teachings alone were enough to liberate everyone it's all the Buddha would teach...but it's clear that the Buddha didn't teach just this. The Buddha tailored his teachings to his audience and the circumstance. I don't think these teachings would have worked for everyone. Others might have been too caught up with the idea of a "self" that teaching them this would make them shake there heads and not listen to the Buddha.

Although, I do think these teachings touch at the core of what the Buddha taught. That through mindfulness we can see the true nature of things and through that one sees seeing as just seeing...instead of all the stuff we layer on top of it through our greed, desires, etc. When I look at something attractive desire arises, a sense of suffering arises too if I can't get the thing I'm attracted too...then a whole causal chain of emotions, feels, etc. It could lead one into a frenzy if they lack control. To be disciplined enough to really see seeing as just seeing, hearing as just hearing and so forth seems to require, at least from what I can tell, a pretty disciplined mind that's well trained in concentration and mindfulness. In that sense, the teaching is challenging, because that training isn't easy.

So yes, I do think this teaching touches at the core, because it touches on dependant origination and that's truly one of the core concepts in the Buddha's teachings. It's through the senses and the causal chain that we're bound to suffering and it's only through relinquishment that we free ourselves. That's what the Buddha is getting at when he says see seeing as seeing, hearing as hearing, etc.

User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 3670
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:04 am

I think the traditional way of practice is to develop the jhānas first, then insight, but the teaching of bare-awareness was given to individuals who wanted to develop insight in the shortest possible time.

The (empty-headed Poṭhila) had been teaching the Dhamma to others and was a well-respected teacher with hundreds of disciples, many of whom were Arahants.

was an experienced ship's captain who had been ship-wrecked, and was the only one to escape with his life. He then travelled right across India to meet the Buddha after hearing about his Enlightenment.

Mālukyaputta was already 80 years of age when he ordained.

All of them would have had a great sense of urgency to gain insight, due to not expecting to live for much longer.

Nowadays, many who take up meditation practice have limited time available for practice. They must earn a living and look after their families, or if they are young, they may be pursuing University degrees with a view to having good career prospects. There are few who are able or willing to renounce and become monks or nuns.

Even among monastics, many of us feel the need to study and teach to preserve the true Dhamma before the practical knowledge of insight meditation is lost.

The Venerable Mahāsī Sayādaw taught the Mālukyaputta Sutta repeatedly and in many places. The practice of bare awareness is the most vital teaching for those who have limited time to devote to meditation. Others may have more time to develop samatha practices before proceeding to vipassanā.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

Digity
Posts: 1205
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:13 am

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings?

Postby Digity » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:14 am

*edit*...ignore question
Last edited by Digity on Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
polarbear101
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: California

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings?

Postby polarbear101 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:59 am

Last edited by polarbear101 on Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings?

Postby ground » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:21 am


Samma
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:47 pm

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings?

Postby Samma » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:26 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:31 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 10648
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:01 am

Image




User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings?

Postby cooran » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:35 am

Hello all,

About Bahiya:

http://archive.thebuddhadharma.com/issu ... grees.html

With metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

SamKR
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings?

Postby SamKR » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:41 am

Thank you everyone for your replies. It is not necessarily my view that these suttas are the essential core of the Buddha's teachings. And with everyone's replies I am now even lesser inclined to have that view. :) But they are so great, aren't they? And may work for many people.

I agree with Retro and David that we cannot generalize and different teachings/suttas may be suitable for different people. Similarly, considering Jhana vs. Insight, we can say both may be necessary in different proportions for different people. I agree with Digity's post too.
Last edited by SamKR on Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

SamKR
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings?

Postby SamKR » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:53 am

Last edited by SamKR on Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
reflection
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Essence of the Buddha's teachings?

Postby reflection » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:09 am

The core teachings of the Buddha to realize nibbana is not jhana, it is not vipassana, it is not bare awareness, it's not mindfulness. It is the 8-fold path. This path we see again and again in the suttas and I think we should read each sutta in this light, not pick out one and make it into something special. This is just like the erroneous translation of a part in the satipatthana sutta "this is the only path .. for the realization of nibbana". No, it's not the only path, the 8-fold path is the only path.

So this sutta must explain some part of the path that the Buddha taught was suitable to point out to those persons. It contains no secret shortcut to nibbana or the Buddha would have taught this way to everybody. In the end those students -if they indeed became enlightened- must also have walked the entire path.


Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine